VGC15 Teambuilding Workshop

Based on the Doubles OU thread which was based on the OU thread. I've moved on from stealing NB content and have now moved on to cannibalizing good threads on Smogon.

As should be fairly obvious, this is a thread for users like you to request that some good (or in my case, decidedly average) VGC15 players make you a team. All you need to do is give us a couple Pokemon to build around (or a single Pokemon with an idea of what you'd like to see) and we'll do our best to build you a neato team. We'll also give you our thoughts on the process of how we built the team - our end goal is to help you improve, and reading about the teambuilding process of others can help you learn to build your own teams.

Do not ask about becoming a builder. We will scout them ourselves.

Rules:
- Have a one paragraph description with the set / core you want us to build around and a slight idea of what kind of team you want the end result to be. Also, actually have the set(s) you want us to use in your post. This makes the process of building teams faster for all of us here.
- Do not post asking us to make use of uncompetitive Pokemon. This is not a competition to see how good we are at team building; this is us trying to educate people on what is good and how to build effective teams. If you're not sure if your Pokemon is viable, check the Viability Rankings.
- Please note that we can choose to ignore requests for extremely generic sets and / or cores (e.g.: Mega Kangaskhan + Bisharp, Mega Charizard Y + Venusaur). This in a way extends to cores with a user of Follow Me / Rage Powder - redirection is super strong but might end up added regardless, so drop the Amoonguss from your post.
- NO ABILITY GIMMICKS. This includes things like Perish Trap, Skill Swap + Slaking, Skill Swap Spinda, Sturdy Shedinja, Wonder Guard Electrics, and so on and so forth.
- Do not flame people for asking for a certain Pokemon or that they can't build one themselves.
- This isn't the OU forum, so this thread probably won't fill up too fast. That said, refrain from requesting a team when there are several pending requests.
- Please remember that these teams are first drafts and as such will not be perfect. Edit them as you please.
- On that note, you are free (and highly encouraged) to suggest and post changes / critiques you've made to already posted teams that you feel improve them.
- However, you are not allowed to post your own teams here to have us modify them. We're here to build new teams, not modify older ones. If you want your own teams critiqued and modified, post them in the RMT forum, not here.

Current Builders:
- lucariojr
- TheMantyke
- Chenkovsky
- Jio
- Ksh13

I'm pretty newbie/ scrubby when it comes to VGC, just started looking into it for about a week now. Anyways, I'm really liking Arcanine and Milotic as the start of a FWG core, but outside of those two mons I really don't know what other pokemon/ sets work well for them in a VGC format.


Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Snarl
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp

More of the bulky Arcanine, I like his ability to hinder attackers through Intimidate, WoW, and Snarl. Flamethrower is the STAB with both accuracy and power. I chose Morning Sun to help increase the longevity of Arcanine, who doesn't take too much damage due to WoW and Snarl.
I'm open to the idea of changing stuff around, but I feel that Snarl and WoW are a must.



Milotic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail

Honestly I'm not too sure about AV, but this moveset actually isn't that bad. Hydro Pump over Scald because Arcanine provides the burns and Hydro Pump offers more power. Icy Wind slows down opponents and works great with Arcanine's Snarl and WoW. Ice Beam is there to hit Land Dog, Salemence, and a bunch of other stuff that hates Ice. Dragon Tail is weird, but it does work in certain situations where you want to phase pokemon out or attempt to hit Aegislash's King's Shield for a boost.


For Grass I was looking into M-Venusaur or Breloom but I'm still playing around and trying to figure it out. Heck, I'm still trying to figure out just these two mons. Any help/ advice would be appreciated.

that's a fairly flexible core to go with... and nothing to really build around to be honest. both pokemon are more along the lines of 6th member additions to handle certain matchups. you could either go with either m-venusaur (and to be honest both don't offer outstanding support to megasaur outside of type synergy) or add mega gengar and aim to just stall out stuff with perish song. milotic takes care of heatran/landorus/etc fairly well, which is the main threat to m-gengar teams (imo).
if you end up going with mega venusaur and still want to use arcanine, go with a physical life orb set or choice band. reason being is because special bulky arcanine isn't doing you any favors offensively and both venu and milotic aren't offensively inclined most of the time.

anyway, it's kinda hard to judge these two as a core since they both kinda do their own thing. figure out which direction you want to head in.

Well. Better contribute on this threat at least :b I have been trialing Storm Drain Gastrodon with Mega Scizor. Both with good type synergy. I am pretty knowledgable about Gastrodon since I made an Article that was posted last week on NB. But regardless of that the spread is not even mine haha. But it fits with what I want covered with them.



I credit the EV spread to Simon Yip.

Gastrodon @ Expert Belt
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 100 Def / 196 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 27 Spe
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect

It gives good offensive pressure. With it underspeeding Aegislash to KO it in blade form with Earth Power. It knocks out Mega Salamence with Ice Beam, and KOs Terrakion with Earth Power. Scald was to hurt Levitating Pokemon like Rotom-Heat and Rotom-W, while having the chance to burn Pokemon.



Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
Level: 50
EVs: 164 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Protect

The spread does a few things. It outspeeds 4 speed Suicune by one point. Allowing it to eat the potential Sitrus Berry and get damage off before it takes a Scald (as it could burn Scizor). +2 Bug Bite KO's 4 HP Mega Kangaskhan and the rest for was given to maximise general bulk.

I think Tailwind could be okay for the team. But I am not sure if that is better than maybe Thunder Wave. As then I could have a Bug/ Electric/ Water type core. Thanks for reading. I hope there can be some good advice.

PyroTakun said:

I'm pretty newbie/ scrubby when it comes to VGC, just started looking into it for about a week now. Anyways, I'm really liking Arcanine and Milotic as the start of a FWG core, but outside of those two mons I really don't know what other pokemon/ sets work well for them in a VGC format.

Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Snarl
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp

More of the bulky Arcanine, I like his ability to hinder attackers through Intimidate, WoW, and Snarl. Flamethrower is the STAB with both accuracy and power. I chose Morning Sun to help increase the longevity of Arcanine, who doesn't take too much damage due to WoW and Snarl.
I'm open to the idea of changing stuff around, but I feel that Snarl and WoW are a must.

Milotic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail

Honestly I'm not too sure about AV, but this moveset actually isn't that bad. Hydro Pump over Scald because Arcanine provides the burns and Hydro Pump offers more power. Icy Wind slows down opponents and works great with Arcanine's Snarl and WoW. Ice Beam is there to hit Land Dog, Salemence, and a bunch of other stuff that hates Ice. Dragon Tail is weird, but it does work in certain situations where you want to phase pokemon out or attempt to hit Aegislash's King's Shield for a boost.


For Grass I was looking into M-Venusaur or Breloom but I'm still playing around and trying to figure it out. Heck, I'm still trying to figure out just these two mons. Any help/ advice would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

I use a Arcanine + Milotic + M-Venusaur core, which I found extremely useful. Use a Physically Offensive Arcanine to give the core some punch, and replace Dragon Tail with Protect. On Arcanine, you could try Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, Extremespeed / Will-O-Wisp and Protect. Round the core off with some Tailwind or Taunt Support (Zapdos and Thundurus are good for this), and then your final two slots are yours to do with as you choose. I personally run a team of Arcanine, Milotic, M-Venusaur, Zapdos, Terrakion and Gardevoir. Your final three picks should be speed control/ faster teammates to help cover the lack of speed from this rather Bulky Core.

Simperheve said:

I use a Arcanine + Milotic + M-Venusaur core, which I found extremely useful. Use a Physically Offensive Arcanine to give the core some punch, and replace Dragon Tail with Protect. On Arcanine, you could try Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, Extremespeed / Will-O-Wisp and Protect. Round the core off with some Tailwind or Taunt Support (Zapdos and Thundurus are good for this), and then your final two slots are yours to do with as you choose. I personally run a team of Arcanine, Milotic, M-Venusaur, Zapdos, Terrakion and Gardevoir. Your final three picks should be speed control/ faster teammates to help cover the lack of speed from this rather Bulky Core.

Click to expand...

I'd like to, but Protect can't be used on an AV Set, which I'm actually growing to like.




Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Protect

In addition to the Milotic and Arcanine, I ended up going with Breloom for the Grass slot. This is a standard Breloom set, so nothing to really write home about. I needed something Physical, and I also needed a Fighting type to easily take out the Bisharps running around. This past weekend was my first time using this mon, and I was definitely impressed at how well it plays.

So there's the start of my team; no M-Venusaur so I have a Mega slot open which I've been leaning towards M-Metagross and M-Mawile lately. Obviously both would need different support for the last 2 slots. I'm actually open to the idea of anything that works well with Arcanine, Milotic, and Breloom as my FWG core.

PyroTakun said:

I'd like to, but Protect can't be used on an AV Set, which I'm actually growing to like.

Arcanine + Milotic

Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Snarl
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp

More of the bulky Arcanine, I like his ability to hinder attackers through Intimidate, WoW, and Snarl. Flamethrower is the STAB with both accuracy and power. I chose Morning Sun to help increase the longevity of Arcanine, who doesn't take too much damage due to WoW and Snarl.
I'm open to the idea of changing stuff around, but I feel that Snarl and WoW are a must.

Milotic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail

Honestly I'm not too sure about AV, but this moveset actually isn't that bad. Hydro Pump over Scald because Arcanine provides the burns and Hydro Pump offers more power. Icy Wind slows down opponents and works great with Arcanine's Snarl and WoW. Ice Beam is there to hit Land Dog, Salemence, and a bunch of other stuff that hates Ice. Dragon Tail is weird, but it does work in certain situations where you want to phase pokemon out or attempt to hit Aegislash's King's Shield for a boost.

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Protect

In addition to the Milotic and Arcanine, I ended up going with Breloom for the Grass slot. This is a standard Breloom set, so nothing to really write home about. I needed something Physical, and I also needed a Fighting type to easily take out the Bisharps running around. This past weekend was my first time using this mon, and I was definitely impressed at how well it plays.

So there's the start of my team; no M-Venusaur so I have a Mega slot open which I've been leaning towards M-Metagross and M-Mawile lately. Obviously both would need different support for the last 2 slots. I'm actually open to the idea of anything that works well with Arcanine, Milotic, and Breloom as my FWG core.

Click to expand...

I am getting blind in my (not very) old age! Can't believe I missed the AV. I think with this core you'd definitely benefit from the Speed/ Tailwind Support from Zapdos. Other than that, pick something to patch out your weaknesses and provide you with coverage. M-Metagross would probably be a good pick for this team, especially as an Anti-Intimidate Lead alongside Milotic. You could then use Landorus for Double Intimidate, or Terrakion if you're prefer not to have a 4x Ice Weakness. Some fairy coverage might be pretty neat too, so you could run Sylveon if you want bulk. Personally, I run a scarfed Gardevoir next to the bulky core, simply to provide some speed and power.

PyroTakun said:

I'd like to, but Protect can't be used on an AV Set, which I'm actually growing to like.

Arcanine + Milotic

Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Snarl
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp

More of the bulky Arcanine, I like his ability to hinder attackers through Intimidate, WoW, and Snarl. Flamethrower is the STAB with both accuracy and power. I chose Morning Sun to help increase the longevity of Arcanine, who doesn't take too much damage due to WoW and Snarl.
I'm open to the idea of changing stuff around, but I feel that Snarl and WoW are a must.

Milotic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail

Honestly I'm not too sure about AV, but this moveset actually isn't that bad. Hydro Pump over Scald because Arcanine provides the burns and Hydro Pump offers more power. Icy Wind slows down opponents and works great with Arcanine's Snarl and WoW. Ice Beam is there to hit Land Dog, Salemence, and a bunch of other stuff that hates Ice. Dragon Tail is weird, but it does work in certain situations where you want to phase pokemon out or attempt to hit Aegislash's King's Shield for a boost.

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Protect

In addition to the Milotic and Arcanine, I ended up going with Breloom for the Grass slot. This is a standard Breloom set, so nothing to really write home about. I needed something Physical, and I also needed a Fighting type to easily take out the Bisharps running around. This past weekend was my first time using this mon, and I was definitely impressed at how well it plays.

So there's the start of my team; no M-Venusaur so I have a Mega slot open which I've been leaning towards M-Metagross and M-Mawile lately. Obviously both would need different support for the last 2 slots. I'm actually open to the idea of anything that works well with Arcanine, Milotic, and Breloom as my FWG core.

Click to expand...

Along with Simperheve 's suggestion...zapdos/mega-metagross/terrakion fits very nicely with those three.

I ran that trio together and they complement each other SO well. Zapdos helps deal with bulky waters/char y along with tailwind support ; terrakion gives quick guard support for sucker punch/fake out nonsense. Mega meta is just all around great. With milotic you immediately make your opponent second guess bringing an intimidate which helps loom/gross/terrakion a ton.

What's really nice about the team composition of breloom/milotic/arcanine/zapdos/meta/terak is that you're not placing a whole ton of pressure on your metagross as the team is really strong around it.

PyroTakun said:

Milotic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail

Honestly I'm not too sure about AV, but this moveset actually isn't that bad. Hydro Pump over Scald because Arcanine provides the burns and Hydro Pump offers more power. Icy Wind slows down opponents and works great with Arcanine's Snarl and WoW. Ice Beam is there to hit Land Dog, Salemence, and a bunch of other stuff that hates Ice. Dragon Tail is weird, but it does work in certain situations where you want to phase pokemon out or attempt to hit Aegislash's King's Shield for a boost.

Click to expand...

Another option over Dragon Tail for the fourth slot is Mirror Coat. Milotic is already stupidly bulky, and being able to reflect back damaging attacks with double the power can be incredibly useful, especially against things you otherwise can't really touch, like Rotom-W.

Also Magic Coat is hilarious against khan artist.

Simperheve said:

I am getting blind in my (not very) old age! Can't believe I missed the AV. I think with this core you'd definitely benefit from the Speed/ Tailwind Support from Zapdos. Other than that, pick something to patch out your weaknesses and provide you with coverage. M-Metagross would probably be a good pick for this team, especially as an Anti-Intimidate Lead alongside Milotic. You could then use Landorus for Double Intimidate, or Terrakion if you're prefer not to have a 4x Ice Weakness. Some fairy coverage might be pretty neat too, so you could run Sylveon if you want bulk. Personally, I run a scarfed Gardevoir next to the bulky core, simply to provide some speed and power.

Click to expand...

Tailwind is a really good idea, and I've been leaning towards M-Metagross since I already have one in game.

flargananddingle said:

Along with Simperheve 's suggestion...zapdos/mega-metagross/terrakion fits very nicely with those three.

I ran that trio together and they complement each other SO well. Zapdos helps deal with bulky waters/char y along with tailwind support ; terrakion gives quick guard support for sucker punch/fake out nonsense. Mega meta is just all around great. With milotic you immediately make your opponent second guess bringing an intimidate which helps loom/gross/terrakion a ton.

What's really nice about the team composition of breloom/milotic/arcanine/zapdos/meta/terak is that you're not placing a whole ton of pressure on your metagross as the team is really strong around it.

Click to expand...

Dual-core team? This actually sounds like a very balanced team, definitely going to try it out! Although I'm not too sure how it would fare against Trick Room.

Pyritie said:

Another option over Dragon Tail for the fourth slot is Mirror Coat. Milotic is already stupidly bulky, and being able to reflect back damaging attacks with double the power can be incredibly useful, especially against things you otherwise can't really touch, like Rotom-W.

Also Magic Coat is hilarious against khan artist.

Click to expand...

I can't believe I overlooked Mirror Coat. That would definitely help with the Thundurus, Zapdos, and Rotoms that try to hit Milotic. Does it always go last, or is it based off of the pokemon's speed? Cus it would be magical if I could get M-Venusaur with it too.

PyroTakun said:

I can't believe I overlooked Mirror Coat. That would definitely help with the Thundurus, Zapdos, and Rotoms that try to hit Milotic. Does it always go last, or is it based off of the pokemon's speed? Cus it would be magical if I could get M-Venusaur with it too.

Click to expand...

It has -5 priority, so yeah, it'll go last most of the time (except for things like roar and trick room)

One other thing to mention is that since it's a psychic type move, it will not work if you reflect stuff back at a dark type like hydreigon! (though besides dark types being immune, it doesn't take type effectiveness into account)

stroid333 said:

...

Click to expand...

Scizor and Gastrodon is a weird core. Gastrodon is really a tech mon you add to handle Heatran or the Rotom formes if you're struggling with them later in the team building process, so working with it from the get go was odd. I liked the core though, Gastrodon handles a lot Scizor's counters, with that idea I built around Scizor sweeping. I wasn't massively sure about your spreads but I left them in, because I'm busy and didn't want to spend to much time figuring out a good spread or whether 252/252 was the way to go. The team ended up being very offensive, more so than I like. Scizor is shit on by Fire-types and you already had a Water-type so Heatran was the obvious addition. Nothing to out of the ordinary with the Heatran, Chople Berry because the team is so offensive switching can be hard and you might need to take a Fighting-type hit. Working with the idea of Scizor sweeping, and it was quite fast, Tailwind seemed important. Zapdos has decent defensive synergy with most of the team, it is also a check to Landorus-T so that's nice. The EV's are such that Landorus-T can't 2HKO with Rock Slide and Hydreigon can't OHKO with Draco Meteor, pretty much insuring you can get up a Tailwind. Virizion is a decent Landorus-T and Mega Kangaskhan check, I personally find Quick Guard provides more utility and I use it more, but Stone Edge can help the Mega Zard Y match-up so that's an option to be open to. Pretty standard Latios outside of Lum and Memento. Lum is the next best item other than Life Orb really, some argue Specs or Scarf but I don't think either are really that great, and both are outclassed by Hydreigon. Lum Berry gives you an offensive counter to Breloom, Amoonguss, and other Grass-types of that nature. Memento can only really be used on this kind of team, it is for situations where Latios will die anyway and the drops are better than damage, or when facing Mega Khan or Mega Mawile and you can avoid Sucker Punch and greatly neuter them. I kinda wish I had better answers to Mega Khan and Landorus-T, but neither were massive issues when testing so IDK. I would be interested in re-building this team with Jellicent rather than Gastrodon, but that's really for another time.

Ok, here's one. We're so far on a 3:13 win:loss ratio, so you physically cannot fuck up this core harder than me. 3 days straight and I peaked at 1530: then plummeted 100+ points.
The 2 wins were forfeits btw, they were winning and ran. Might just start saving people time and run on turn 1. The 3rd, I used a different team consisting of shit like Arbok. Yes. Arbok is better than my team.

Charizard @ Charizardite-Y
Modest, 228 HP, 28 Def, 212 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def, 36 Speed
Ability: Blaze → Drought

- Heat Wave
- Protect
- Fire Pledge
- Ancientpower

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Modest, 156 HP, 4 Def, 244 Sp. Atk, 12 Sp. Def, 92 Speed
Ability: Chlorophyll → Thick Fat

- Grass Pledge
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Sludge Bomb

Swampert @ Life Orb
Modest, 188 HP, 4 Def, 236 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def, 76 Speed.
Ability: Torrent

- Water Pledge
- Wide Guard
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Charizard's spread allows her to tank Rocky Helmet Garchomp's Rock Slide, 252+ LO Draco from Hydreigon, and any Thunderbolt weaker than Expert belt Thundy-T.
Speed outruns max Speed Adamant Bisharp, plus a few points to creep things that creep that benchmark like Bulky MegaKhan. Ancientpower slaughters Talonflame, Char-Y, and hits other Fire or Flying mons.

Venusaur outruns +1 252+ Mega Gyarados and 252+ Mega Alakazam / Mega Aerodactyl in Sun (or Mega + Tailwind). The rest is just max Sp. Atk for ChloroSaur and rest in bulk for MegaSaur/Leech Seed stall.
I trust the moveset is obvious. Sleep Powder is absolute shit and Leech Seed has done far better for me.

Swampert supports the Megas, and completes the Pledge trio. Spread outruns +111 in Tailwind, near max Sp. Atk is required for vital KO's, and the bulk investment lets him tank hits reasonably well overall.
Life Orb is used to beef up his pathetic neutral damage output, increase the power of Grass+Water Pledge, and grab a 2HKO on bulky Thundurus-I.
List of things he KO's: Lando-T, Heatran, Terrakion, Talonflame, Zadpdos, Aegislash, Mega Salamence, Garchomp, Mega Mawile, Mega Manectric, Mege Metagross, Zapdos, Togekiss, Raikou, Hydreigon.
Note those things happen to shit on at least 1 mega each.
Absorbs Electric/Rock for Char-Y, lone Grass weakness is covered.



End result... needs some good Speed support, a Mega Kangaskhan counter, Dragon smasher, and I guess beyond that it's 3 open, non-mega slots. Swampy is negotiable, as Water Pledge is not vital but the things Swampy counters + Wide Guard support is amazing and I cannot fathom a better Charizard partner.

edit: oh, might need Lucky Chant too, I forgot to mention Char-Y cannot tank *critical* thunderbolt from Thundurus and that's the #1 reason I lose. My fiercely efficient EV spreads mean nothing against criticals.

Chenkovsky said:

Scizor and Gastrodon is a weird core. Gastrodon is really a tech mon you add to handle Heatran or the Rotom formes if you're struggling with them later in the team building process, so working with it from the get go was odd. I liked the core though, Gastrodon handles a lot Scizor's counters, with that idea I built around Scizor sweeping. I wasn't massively sure about your spreads but I left them in, because I'm busy and didn't want to spend to much time figuring out a good spread or whether 252/252 was the way to go. The team ended up being very offensive, more so than I like. Scizor is shit on by Fire-types and you already had a Water-type so Heatran was the obvious addition. Nothing to out of the ordinary with the Heatran, Chople Berry because the team is so offensive switching can be hard and you might need to take a Fighting-type hit. Working with the idea of Scizor sweeping, and it was quite fast, Tailwind seemed important. Zapdos has decent defensive synergy with most of the team, it is also a check to Landorus-T so that's nice. The EV's are such that Landorus-T can't 2HKO with Rock Slide and Hydreigon can't OHKO with Draco Meteor, pretty much insuring you can get up a Tailwind. Virizion is a decent Landorus-T and Mega Kangaskhan check, I personally find Quick Guard provides more utility and I use it more, but Stone Edge can help the Mega Zard Y match-up so that's an option to be open to. Pretty standard Latios outside of Lum and Memento. Lum is the next best item other than Life Orb really, some argue Specs or Scarf but I don't think either are really that great, and both are outclassed by Hydreigon. Lum Berry gives you an offensive counter to Breloom, Amoonguss, and other Grass-types of that nature. Memento can only really be used on this kind of team, it is for situations where Latios will die anyway and the drops are better than damage, or when facing Mega Khan or Mega Mawile and you can avoid Sucker Punch and greatly neuter them. I kinda wish I had better answers to Mega Khan and Landorus-T, but neither were massive issues when testing so IDK. I would be interested in re-building this team with Jellicent rather than Gastrodon, but that's really for another time.

team

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Swarm
Level: 50
EVs: 164 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Gastrodon @ Expert Belt
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 100 Def / 196 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 27 Spe
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Memento
- Protect

Zapdos @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
- Tailwind

Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Quick Guard
- Protect

Click to expand...

Thank you for giving your input. I find this interesting, as the team very well mirrors what I currently was testing. This was a really good insight and I appreciate what you did with your time constraints as you mentioned.

Chenkovsky said:

Scizor and Gastrodon is a weird core. Gastrodon is really a tech mon you add to handle Heatran or the Rotom formes if you're struggling with them later in the team building process, so working with it from the get go was odd. I liked the core though, Gastrodon handles a lot Scizor's counters, with that idea I built around Scizor sweeping. I wasn't massively sure about your spreads but I left them in, because I'm busy and didn't want to spend to much time figuring out a good spread or whether 252/252 was the way to go. The team ended up being very offensive, more so than I like. Scizor is shit on by Fire-types and you already had a Water-type so Heatran was the obvious addition. Nothing to out of the ordinary with the Heatran, Chople Berry because the team is so offensive switching can be hard and you might need to take a Fighting-type hit. Working with the idea of Scizor sweeping, and it was quite fast, Tailwind seemed important. Zapdos has decent defensive synergy with most of the team, it is also a check to Landorus-T so that's nice. The EV's are such that Landorus-T can't 2HKO with Rock Slide and Hydreigon can't OHKO with Draco Meteor, pretty much insuring you can get up a Tailwind. Virizion is a decent Landorus-T and Mega Kangaskhan check, I personally find Quick Guard provides more utility and I use it more, but Stone Edge can help the Mega Zard Y match-up so that's an option to be open to. Pretty standard Latios outside of Lum and Memento. Lum is the next best item other than Life Orb really, some argue Specs or Scarf but I don't think either are really that great, and both are outclassed by Hydreigon. Lum Berry gives you an offensive counter to Breloom, Amoonguss, and other Grass-types of that nature. Memento can only really be used on this kind of team, it is for situations where Latios will die anyway and the drops are better than damage, or when facing Mega Khan or Mega Mawile and you can avoid Sucker Punch and greatly neuter them. I kinda wish I had better answers to Mega Khan and Landorus-T, but neither were massive issues when testing so IDK. I would be interested in re-building this team with Jellicent rather than Gastrodon, but that's really for another time.

team

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Swarm
Level: 50
EVs: 164 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Gastrodon @ Expert Belt
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 100 Def / 196 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 27 Spe
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Memento
- Protect

Zapdos @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost
- Tailwind

Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Quick Guard
- Protect

Click to expand...

It seems like you've got a bit of overkill against spore users: Lum, Goggles, a Grass type, and Heatran. Perhaps a sitrus on the Zapdos, replacing roost with protect/heat wave?

MrWish said:

It seems like you've got a bit of overkill against spore users: Lum, Goggles, a Grass type, and Heatran. Perhaps a sitrus on the Zapdos, replacing roost with protect/heat wave?

Click to expand...

Sitrus on Zapdos is an option, but a lot of what you mention are not to just take on Spore. Heatran helps Scizors match-up with Fire- and Steel-types in particular, that was its primary goal. Virizion was added to handle Khan and Landorus-T not to disincentivise Spore. If not Lum Berry on Latios what else? I know I only mentioned spore, but it helps against Thundurus, and also Smeargle. Sitrus Berry is not always the best option for Zapdos, the amount of bulk that I am running probably means that Zapdos won't have issues staying alive for more than three turns, which makes Roost the better option. So in terms of item choices for Zapdos the next best thing would be Rocky Helmet, and that is really just personal preference over legitimate viability. The team handles Spore very well, but that is a byproduct of other factors.

Chenkovsky said:

Sitrus on Zapdos is an option, but a lot of what you mention are not to just take on Spore. Heatran helps Scizors match-up with Fire- and Steel-types in particular, that was its primary goal. Virizion was added to handle Khan and Landorus-T not to disincentivise Spore. If not Lum Berry on Latios what else? I know I only mentioned spore, but it helps against Thundurus, and also Smeargle. Sitrus Berry is not always the best option for Zapdos, the amount of bulk that I am running probably means that Zapdos won't have issues staying alive for more than three turns, which makes Roost the better option. So in terms of item choices for Zapdos the next best thing would be Rocky Helmet, and that is really just personal preference over legitimate viability. The team handles Spore very well, but that is a byproduct of other factors.

Click to expand...

Sitrus Berry would give you the flexibility to run Protect/ Heat Wave instead of Roost if you so choose. If you run Roost, Sitrus would give Zapdos extreme levels of longevity, letting you spend another turn or so opening KOs or setting Tailwinds before you have to resort to healing yourself.

Chenkovsky said:

Sitrus on Zapdos is an option, but a lot of what you mention are not to just take on Spore. Heatran helps Scizors match-up with Fire- and Steel-types in particular, that was its primary goal. Virizion was added to handle Khan and Landorus-T not to disincentivise Spore. If not Lum Berry on Latios what else? I know I only mentioned spore, but it helps against Thundurus, and also Smeargle. Sitrus Berry is not always the best option for Zapdos, the amount of bulk that I am running probably means that Zapdos won't have issues staying alive for more than three turns, which makes Roost the better option. So in terms of item choices for Zapdos the next best thing would be Rocky Helmet, and that is really just personal preference over legitimate viability. The team handles Spore very well, but that is a byproduct of other factors.

Click to expand...

I didn't mean to imply that your team only considered spore, I was just pointing out how strong it was against it. Goggles are pretty much only run to counter Amoonguss, Breloom, and the slightly more rare Volcarona, so that item seemed to have the least utility on the team.

Another potential option is to swap the Life Orb and Lum Berry holders. Life Orb's got a bit of synergy with Memento since you're not expecting it to stay around too long (and makes for some devastating Dracos), and Lum, while wasting its sleep-curing potential on a grass type (with the exception of Dark Void and random gimmick non-spore sleep moves), is nice to have on physical Virizion, allowing it to safely switch in on a scald directed at Scizor/Heatran. I couldn't say whether this is a better option, because Virizion would certainly miss the damage output that Life Orb provides, but it's an option that can be considered.

MrWish said:

I didn't mean to imply that your team only considered spore, I was just pointing out how strong it was against it. Goggles are pretty much only run to counter Amoonguss, Breloom, and the slightly more rare Volcarona, so that item seemed to have the least utility on the team.

Another potential option is to swap the Life Orb and Lum Berry holders. Life Orb's got a bit of synergy with Memento since you're not expecting it to stay around too long (and makes for some devastating Dracos), and Lum, while wasting its sleep-curing potential on a grass type (with the exception of Dark Void and random gimmick non-spore sleep moves), is nice to have on physical Virizion, allowing it to safely switch in on a scald directed at Scizor/Heatran. I couldn't say whether this is a better option, because Virizion would certainly miss the damage output that Life Orb provides, but it's an option that can be considered.

Click to expand...

Virizion needs Life Orb in order to have guaranteed OHKOes on Khan and Heatran, which are both important for the team.

can i get help?
im not good at descriptions so....

Salamence @ Salamenceite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Protect
- Earthquake

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 20 SpA / 60 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast
- Protect

Thundurus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 20 HP / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch

Virizion @ Occa Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 atk / 252 spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Protect

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Protect

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Tailwind
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect

I saw this mega gardevoir + volcarona core mentioned somewhere, either here or nugget bridge. Volcarona redirects physical attacks away from gardevoir (and possibly burns them due to flame body), and can help get rid of steel types that gardevoir has trouble with. I can immediately see heatran and rock sliders as a problem, however.

What are some other pokemon to go with this core?

GeneticHeracross77 said:

can i get help?
im not good at descriptions so....

Salamence @ Salamenceite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Protect
- Earthquake

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 20 SpA / 60 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast
- Protect

Thundurus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 20 HP / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch

Virizion @ Occa Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 atk / 252 spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Protect

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Protect

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Tailwind
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Click to expand...

Full teams should go in the "rate my team" (RMT) section, not here.

Pyritie said:

I saw this mega gardevoir + volcarona core mentioned somewhere, either here or nugget bridge. Volcarona redirects physical attacks away from gardevoir (and possibly burns them due to flame body), and can help get rid of steel types that gardevoir has trouble with. I can immediately see heatran and rock sliders as a problem, however.

What are some other pokemon to go with this core?



Full teams should go in the "rate my team" (RMT) section, not here.

Click to expand...

Sounds like Suicune possibly could work with this core. It deals with Heatran and Rock Sliders somewhat well, and provides Tailwind support which is always nice. You would also need something to check rain and TR, as Gardevoir and Volcarona don't really do that well against it. There are several ways to do this, so it kind of depends what you like to have. But making a FWG core with Volcarona, Suicune, and someone that is a Grass-type sounds nice.

Edit: Whoops, forgot Volc gets Tailwind.

Ksh13 said:

Sounds like Suicune possibly could work with this core. It deals with Heatran and Rock Sliders somewhat well, and provides Tailwind support which is always nice. You would also need something to check rain and TR, as Gardevoir and Volcarona don't really do that well against it. There are several ways to do this, so it kind of depends what you like to have. But making a FWG core with Volcarona, Suicune, and someone that is a Grass-type sounds nice.

Click to expand...

Gardevoir *could* turn off TR itself, and Volcarona can set Tailwind.

Considering the... rather bad defense of the combination, Intimidate support from Landorus-T or Gyarados (which could form, or bluff, a double mega core) might help. Both also help against Charizard-Y, Heatran, Talonflame, Entei, and Arcanine that wall Fairy+Fire. Landog hits all that and stops Thundy from Thunder Waving you to oblivion, but has trouble with the "EQing its partner to death" thing. Volc can redirect Ice Beam though. Gyarados can set DD, possibly Mega, and can tackle opposing Lando-T. Pick your poison I guess, can't go too wrong.

Really awesome to see a thread like this to help out those of us transitioning into VGC. Especially with how expansive the VGC 2015 meta game is. So first off thanks in advanced!

I have an Idea for a Dragon, Steel, Fairy Core revolving around:

Hydreigon (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power

Normally comes in first to get off a nuke and scout out some of what the oponnent has and cleans up late game. Considering switching to scarf for better late game clean up.

Aegislash (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Shadow Ball
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Hydreigon's Partner in crime. Wonderful switching synergy and compliments eachother quite will. I prefer wide guard over sub to stop the Earthquakes, Rock slides, heatwaves, and hyper voices that are quite common right now.

Gardevoir (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Protect

Gardevoir Rounds out the core and hits like a Special Tank! Lots of nice oportunities to switch in and also great synergy with Aegislash for relativly free switches.

Over all I really like how these three play out! The issues that I'm having are primarily with Steel types, more specifically sub steel type users (mega meta, Aegislash, heatran). Also though Is an Issue with very powerful Physical pokemon in general. I have tried rotom heat, but was dissatisfied with the results at holding these mons at bay. So I'm looking for alternatives there. I honestly haven't had to much trouble with Rain or Sandstorm teams, I've normally been able to power through, Sun teams though have been a problem. I just don't have a solid check to them.

One mon that I have been using with this core to great effect is Greninja:

Greninja (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- U-turn

He can take out a deluge of common threats and team specific threats. And thanks to the rarity of Physical Greninja, it comes out of no where for a lot of people. Takes out Heatran, T-Tar, Ludicolo, Togekiss, (really most any fairy), Landorus-T, Garachomp, Salamance. So I have really liked using him and how he plays. However, his fraility leaves much to be desired. Please feel free to Tweak him or totally scrap Greninja if there are better alternatives out there.

I have no idea what other 2/3 pokemon to use to round out this team! I've tried rotom-heat, breloom, heatran, and, gyrados. But none quite seem to round out the team quite like i'm hoping they would. Please help if you can! Again Thanks in advanced!

Ksh13 said:

Sounds like Suicune possibly could work with this core. It deals with Heatran and Rock Sliders somewhat well, and provides Tailwind support which is always nice. You would also need something to check rain and TR, as Gardevoir and Volcarona don't really do that well against it. There are several ways to do this, so it kind of depends what you like to have. But making a FWG core with Volcarona, Suicune, and someone that is a Grass-type sounds nice.

Edit: Whoops, forgot Volc gets Tailwind.

Click to expand...

If you have Suicune as part of the core, you can use the extra slot on Volcarona for something else (like Giga Drain for extra longevity/ standing a chance against M-Swampert).