| A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H | I | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Thread Nominations | Nayrz | Serial EKiller | Melee Mewtwo | Mysterious M | iry | Cynara | Terracotta | Exiline | |
2 | Zygarde-C: A+ >> A or S | My view hasn't changed since the previous update on zygarde - its adaptability to the meta and bringing new ideas out happens even today (dragonium z popularity rising) and its just much better as a pokemon than the stuff in A and its not exactly close to S imo, so I can't support a drop or raise on it. I could deal with a drop inside A+ because the #1 A+ mon to me is Ultra. | drop in A+. still great mon that can win in a lot of different ways. versatile and somehow sheds its skin to always keep up with the meta but I don't think it's improved drastically to rise to S since the last zyg hype session. I can see it slithering up and down subranks in A+. ultra is top dog rn so wouldn't be opposed to drop in A+ | A+ is fine lol. its just an inherently good mon and i dont really expect it to move up/down from this rank regardless of the metagaming in usm. | No way for it to go S, but not an A material too. A+ is where it shoud stay. Versitile, and can play many roles within a team, outclass all of the A mons, but as Nayrz said, Ultra is the top mon in A+. | a+ is perfectly fine for it. dd dragonium/groundium opens up teams and glare is as good as ever. defensive sets work okay on fatter teams too | We fight over this pokemon all the time. Its constantly being forced to adapt to the meta. It's progressively similar vs offense, there was a time where I felt it should have been top of A, but I don't agree with this now, It should drop within A+ however, Dragonium-Z is a great set btw. especially against the common team structures that are increasingly ubiquitous in todays meta. Z-Outrage actually does what Zygarde needs to remove sometimes. I think Bulky DD sets or Dragonium-Z is just the way to go right now. | zygarde is nice where it is really versatile win games and can do whatever but not an s material | I'd keep it in A+. Althought it's probably not S rank level yet, it's still way ahead of the A rank mons. The meta adapted quite nicely to it but zygarde also adapted itself to this meta with thing like DD subtoxic / subtect + toxic spikes support or even the Z outrage set. Even the more old standard set can be really annoying. In short even if zyg is not the S rank contender it once was, it's still a top tier meta threat and fully belongs in the A+ rank. Yellow magic also is broken kek | |
3 | Yveltal: Raise in A+ or S | I think Yveltal is experiencing some viability variance in its sets like Stallbreaker picking up more and others dropping down. Ultra should go above it, but I can also get behind Yveltal rising inside with it with that in mind...its one of offense's best methods at dealing with its own common strategies. | raise in A+ to either above xern or above marsh, it's definitely a bit better and more versatile/easier to fit than marsh but nowhere near S | its not s rank at all and i dont care about internal set order | Agree with Sarah about ranking yveltal right below Ultra. The stallbreaker set is amazing right now, but even less popular sets like cb can work on this mon. I wouldnt ever raise it to S tho, high in A+ is where it belongs. | no way this mon is s and does anyone care about internal ordering? high A+ then | Ultra Necrozma is the most polarising pokemon in A+ right now, Yveltal is increasingly common, yes. Stallbreaker IS AMAZING and so is Life orb / Scarf defog. Yveltal should probs be the top of A+ below Ultra Necrozma (which could be considered for S in all honesty). | good mon amazing utility and a lot of sets but not worth s ranking, too many checks that beat all the sets and settup fodder for some mons | I'm agreeing on this, it has an amazing number of usable sets (scarf, defensive, ToxicTaunt, specs, LO w/ sucker punch...) and it really benefits from the Wrapped-around-ultranecc-meta (makes ultra necc fucking S rank btw). This shit is still incredibly hard to switch into, can spread toxic everywhere and actually is very hard to kill. Also priority is very nice rn for broken mon RK'ing purpose. | |
4 | Marshadow: Raise in A+ / S | I'm not much of a fan of Marshadow - its a mon chosen to not lose offensive matchups, and its not foolproof either (Ultra lives a hit at full, Webs exists, Ekiller has berry, can't RK DD mons that well). Having to gimp its anti-offense (dropping coverage + LO) to be useful vs fat is a real drawback. It can stay where it is. | very good mon but not that good, strong utility and power but lacks a bit of damage, isnt foolproof, and squishy. fine where it is | same as above. im actually more inclined to drop marsh if anything, personally. | Should stay where it is | scarier on paper than in practice. good mon, but fine where it is | Keep where it is | really good monster especially in an offensive meta like this but not worth rising cause scarfers still revenge kill and people run bulky arc a lot | No lol, current meta favores it just like it favors yveltal but it's nowhere near S rank and that's coming from a cutie ghosty fanatic (fully deserves A+ tho). | |
5 | Primal Kyogre: A+ >> A | I agree, its strengths are luxury aspects and its defensive traits are very shaky. Ultra scares bulky teams on a more consistent basis with less counterplay than Kyogre. | agree, personally don't think it should have risen | the hype already died? aren’t we just undoing exactly what we did last update? anyways, like i said last time, pogre is generally just gonna fill ur lux slot so A rank seems more appropriate to me. | I think A+ is nice, perhaps bottom A+. I feel Pogre is really solid rn and a lot of teams underprep for it. CM + Spout is amazing, mixed can cuase trouble to fat builds, while defensive restalk has also seen some usage. From what i see most of u guys want it in A, so maybe high in A? | meta has gotten really unkind to pogre. it's usually the flexible spot on the team which checks mixed don and id rather have something like ultra over this. drop | Kyogre is extremely luxury, It is not Ultra Necrozma and thats my issue with it, you use it when Ultra Necrozma does not fit, i.e when you want a Water to soft check dusk / overpower support arcs etc, deal with Mixed RP Don etc etc. too much teambuulding constraints imo. Ultra Necrozma just outclasses significantly by virtue of power by a magnitude and is much faster, you see Ultra Necrozma also actively threatens offense teams too due to its sheer speed, that thing will always benefit from the meta, whether as Kyogre will not, especially when its becoming even more of an offensive meta | drop it. Too much luxury,good on paper bad not worth using a lot of times | Yeah this mon never had anything to do in A+ tbh. Meta is way too offensive for a mon that doesnt even hit that hard and offers almost any defensive utility. | |
6 | Arceus-Water: A >> A- | I still think Arceus-Water is a really good glue mon but struggling to actually check lots of offense's breakers make it a pretty shaky support arc - i prefer it as a SR setter and with proactivity over just being a sponge to powerful hits. i lean towards no | abstain | FUCK, i wrote something and it deleted. ugh. okay i agree with this. shaky check like mentioned in thread and the good mus it has, like ho oh, are outdone by the really shitty mus it has, namely ferro, which puts stress on rest of team to compensate for. its individual effectiveness is reliant on how threatening toxic is and on the opponents team sorta struggling to pressure it out and/or force it out once its in. still a good mon but the implied teambuilding restrictions and just general unreliability makes it seem more fair to put it in a-. it saved this time | Leave this in A, it is still a really solid Arceus form, helps as well with the special pdon sets which have seen a rise lately. As Sarah said, it may not be the best form but it still is a solid support form. | id drop it to A- for now, maybe playing around with the sets a bit could see this back into A | Slightly disagree, can see some justifications however. Arceus-Dark has probably over taken as the flagship support arc. Arceus-water is still nice though. | keep it where it is. Nice blanket check to a lot of shit and nice sr setter in some offense teams. | A-, this can get abused by a lot of mon and is fucking toxic bait, guess some 3 attacks (with epower) set could work but idk much. Also DD necrozma is seeing less usage which doesnt favor waterceus | |
7 | Arceus-Dark: A- >> A | From a support arc perspective its certainly useful enough to rise, but it also has rarer offensive qualities. It doesn't really offer that much security vs Ultra or Dusk but unlike Arceus-Water its at least a proper obstacle to beat for them. | agree w rise, a great support arc and role compressor | the thread arguments ard v solid and i agree with them | I also agree, move it A | blankets a huge portion of the meta. excellent role compression and a good cm user if u want to go that route. A | Absolutely | really good utility and second best cm arceus form, in the worst case force ultra to use outrage and u can revenge after and a one for one is really good vs ultra | wait why is this shit not in A rank already. yeah make it A+ already i think i don't have to tell you dark type advantages ? support (be it SR or defog) and CM refresh all are really good. | |
8 | Ferrothorn: A- >> A | The issue with Ferrothorn is that many teams that make use of it have a 70% chance to straight up lose to a certain Xern and simply live in ignorance. Its difficult to patch this weakness and still have use from the mon. Outside of that, its the best Spikes user, which bulkier teams really appreciate. Bottom of A | ferro is good at being an annoying pile of shit that throws seeds and spikes at u, it's bad at actually walling the hardest special hitters who don't gimp their dmg by running utility/mixed sets. it does annoy a good enough selection of mons/sets to have defensive utility and it mercilessly punishes the passive by dominating the slower turns but the shakiness vs what it's often relied on defensively for still holds it back from a rise, stay A- | spikes is fucking broken. that said, i don’t like ferro raise. seems like just a mu fishing mon. being a steel type that loses to geoxern puts a lot of stress on having another steel type to cover that mu. which sucks dick because ur not getting an ultra necc out of the deal and are just compounding some weaknesses and slowing down ur overall team. the pogre mu is nice but cm spout is also a thing. u have other spikes food targets but they aren’t big targets in this metagame and if they run something like msab/defog ho oh alongside it then u are going nowhere fast (which isnt far-fetched cause the main spikes targets are p passivey mons themselves). even if they dont, u have to assume that u have a way to pressure the spikes food into play and that they dont have any scary punishes to u spending a turn spiking. overall, ferro seems more a mon that preys on teambuilding oversight than something fundamentally solid that ought to be in A rank. im more inclined to drop it back to b+ if anything. | Bottom of A is a good choice, really good spikes, answer to pogre, and most supportceus, it does indeed make a team weaker to Xerneas, but outside of that it is a really valuable mon for balance. | nah, good blanket on paper but loses to a lot of stuff it supposedly checks and you'll end up needing another steel while further slowing down your team without any significant upside other than spiking which ho oh teams can easily dispose of. alternatively your spike turn is going to be punished by faster teams. it's a decent blanket to a plethora of stuff but not crucial enough to be A | I nominated this. see thread | spike setter check to cm ground, pogre and any support ceus but really passive and settup bait without the correct prediction - bottom of a | this a tough one, i'd rank it at the top of A-. But yeah it can just solowin (well almost) some match ups, so i see where this is coming from. I guess i wouldn't mind bottom of A either | |
9 | Arceus-Fairy: A- >> B+ | my last update thoughts haven't changed here. if anything the amount of Ultra instead of Dusk plays into its favor - Ultra has to have Z ready to kill it. Dragonium Z Zygarde is another trend that plays into this mon's favor - fine in its current spot. | abstain | no lol. cm twave is a great set. being able to adapt to the metagame isnt a bad thing. u dont need ur arc fairy to be ur sr mon, u just need it to be a fairy type, which is a rare but valuable commodity in this metagame. its got mu issues with ho-oh/ferro but they aren’t auto-breaking arc fairy teams, uve got a number of potential teammates to address these potential issues. (msab, bird, stag, waves zyg, etc) it helps that these two mons (mostly ferro) have other inherent weaknesses and their effectiveness in the arc fairy mu is reliant on having something like yveltal and (sorta) zyg to pressure the arc fairy out. also arc fairy can very much run fire blast (and probs stone edge) if u got the team to fit it. a- is v fair for this mon imo. | I dont support dropping it to B+. It is one of the most solid formes, both as support, or cm. helps vs yveltal, marsh,ultra etc etc i pretty much covered it last time, no way this goes to B+ please. | meta has grown really unkind to it recently. drop to B+ | I nominated this. see thread | there are really nice sets and good utility but stag is so good and so is dusk mane not sure here | yes it's ass | |
10 | Smeargle: B+ >> A- / A | I dont think "representing a playstyle" warrants rising Smeargle past A-, because it has other setters available anyway and the VR represents individual mon rankings, not overall styles. its the best setter and worth A-, thats for sure though. | webs reeeeeeeee (rise to A-, best web setter and the impact of webs is big enough to justify rise imo) | idk abstain. webs is jank. this seems like a hype move that’ll jump around a lot. webs is inherently strong but its also inherently inconsistent. makes it hard to reflect on vr | webs is really solid in usm, smeargle is the main setter. Well i would agree with A-, cause i also agree with the post in thread. | hell nah. webs is trash. any decent team has enough counterplay | A- or bottom of A, gave reasoning on thread | no. | what i said in the thread. (rise) | |
11 | Skarmory: B >> B+ | balance's ferro alternative. even has the "loses to xern" idea as well. its probably on the same level as the b+ mons, especially considering the likely moves. | agree, being able to just come in and spike in the face of the necros is amazing and sets up great chip for cleans, in addition to skarm hard walling a bunch of threats. kinda a mu mon like mm2 said but ppl forget about it when teambuilding and it takes heavy advantage of that. losing geo stop sux ofc but ferro has the same problem and it performs fine | always liked skarm in usm. it should never go higher than b+, tho. i do agree for it to raise regardless. its a mu mon in that u want to see something like dusk or ekiller but these are two pretty popular mons and good hits in general. spikes is fucking broken btw. custap can probs be a thing now, too. worked in prior gens. | I like skarmory, spikes is good rn and also walls dusk or marsh and other physical threats. B+ is a nice spot | yes | abstain | disagree, loses to ultra loses to xern and takes a steel slot. fire move pdon is super common and it cant even wall marsh with rocks up. Practically only good for dusk mane | agree but only in stall with gira-a for the dual defog core. Unfortunately spikes skarm balance are garbage and never work | |
12 | Mega Sableye: B >> B- | yeah definitely, bulky teams have many ghosts to choose from and Sab is rarely one of them. | hesitant to drop Sab below B, it's not too hot rn but it still has its uses and I don't believe it's on the level of mluc and such | idk no strong feelings. i agree with the competetion arguments. msab also has some strong unique advs tho and i dont like absolutes. it seems to fit more with the b mons on this list to me but i think b- is also fine. not really seen the big reward to using msab either tbh. | Mega Gengar has taken over the mega ghost slot, so a drop like that would make sense. We dont see sab anymore and thats mainly becaue Gengar is really good at this meta rn. | agree with nom | I nominated this. see thread | actually msab isnt so bad but stall is so idk a drop make sense | sableye is garbage, you have no reason to use it (esp since stall really appreciate gengar) | |
13 | Palkia: B- >> B | this mon is pretty scary, but to me is on the same tier of luxury as kyogre with much less room for error. its worth rising inside B- but unsure about B... | agree with thread reasoning, this dick deserves to rise | like if theres a pogre on the opposite team, cool. if theres not then uhhh, ud want something else. seems to niche to deserve going higher than b-. most teams address pogre indirectly anyways. | abstain, i always hated this mon. | nah | Yes | stall destroyer ogre offensive check nice luxury offensive mon rise in b- no b material | yeah | |
14 | Klefki: B- >> B | the face of cheese. my main issue is that it doesn't really check anything anymore. it purely exists to amplify certain strategies that meta mons can abuse to their advantage, and im not sure if thats common enough to warrant B. abstain | agree w others reasoning for rise. keys are cheese and cheese is strong | spikes are fucking broke. this is a mu mon but like hazards is a good way to fish for mu. probs a strong lux slot since priority spikes is ugh. fine with it rising. (checking geoxern is also p big for a lux slot) | Agreed with MM2, B+ is ok for it. | pretty cool when paired with certain mons. if that can be taken into account then B | Yes, Valid points were raised | yes. Set spikes check ygod xern and can spread status , never a dead mon | strongly agreeing with this, spikes and toxic are broken (yellow magic too! )and this can still switch in on a lot of thing. Klefki also has a 100% winrate in ubers champs finals xd | |
15 | Giratina: C+ >> B- | there's an interesting trend of using giratina on more balance oriented builds that seems to have merit, and its stall applications are still valid. i think thats worth B- | the ability to override it with chip and then forcing rest for free turns makes Gira too easy to play around by what it supposedly counters to rise imo, stay in C | i could just use lunala instead. pay off is bad for something that is already really niche and faces such tight direct competetion as fatnala. | This mon can be really useful on balance / stall, i am not going to analyse again how it works (helps with pdon,pogre etc) It is a nice wall to have, dtail/roar and dual status is solid. Defenitely deserves something better than C+ | yeah b- seems like a good place for this | I nominated this. see thread | abstain never liked outside of stall,too passive and easy to set on | this became a staple on multiple defog users stall (aka the only existing stall). supporting this. (gira-a balance are absolute garbage tho) | |
16 | Arceus-Bug: D >> B- | yea...no. its not an anti stag sr mon because gengar completely shits on it, and i can't imagine a build that this actually works out on. | tried it, sorry orch but it sucks :/ | shitmon | lolazo | is someone taking the piss? | No. | no | just put it in C- | |
17 | Arceus-Ice: D >> C- / C | horrible 4mss and absolutely zero defensive utility... for an arceus forme. this isn't necessarily bad by itself but offensively it has no good pros to call it worth using. i can't see this leaving D in usm. | no, for the obvious reasons. any team w it is better off without | shitmon | lolazo | the fuck? | ? | no | no... | |
18 | Shuckle: Unranked >> ? | i don't see the potential pros this mon has as useful enough to be seriously used. pass | I don't think its few pros are worth using over smeargle, stay UR | this mon is unviable but idr why lmao. shitmon | no, smeargle. | the fuck x2 | No. | no | smeargle | |
19 | Ribombee: Unranked >> ? | id need additional xp to make a proper judgment on this, but on paper it looks like a reasonable alternative in certain webs matchups. abstain for now. | just bee urself lmao (abstain) | abstain | It has some nichies, mainly the ones Sarah mentioned, and i would agree with it being C or lower. | somewhere around C seems fine | Sigh. The Bee is a niche webs setter, it cant be affected by secondaries such as Pdon Rock tomb etc. Doesn't fear Zygarde / Mence setup in its face, Nor worries about M-Sab all because of moon blast. Stun Spore is interesting. That is all. I'd say C for this | bottom of c | abstain | |
20 | Buzzwole: C >> Unranked | yeah its had zero usage and meta is not kind to it in the slightest - ditch | yes :'( | shitmon | ban | this was ranked? | I nominated this in the thread, but yes it has no place in this meta (sorry Exiline) | yes | rip my beloved buzzwole, may you rest in peace, your 100% winrate in UPL V won't be forgotten | |
21 | ||||||||||
22 | Internal Nominations | |||||||||
23 | Ultra Necrozma: Top of A+ or S | My internal nom - I think this is one of the scariest mons in the tier and most counterplay options against it immediately lose with an added condition involved (Webs, Outrage, Shadow Tag, etc). Very easy to make this mon sweep games by itself and every single team must dedicate a way to deal with it (and by extension, Sticky Web). If we look at Mega Gengar's S ranking, that prominence is partially due to having a good Ultra killer, and its forced to run Shadow Ball to do this reliably as well. At the very least its a top of A+ mon. | top of a+, ultra necc is strong as hecc | dgaf about ordering, not s rank | Completely covered by Sarah, i definately think it is top A+, but i would also put it in S bottom tbh | don't really care about internal ordering but this mon is probably S | This mon is legitimately a valid contender for S rank. It has 3-4 things that can actually answer it which is worrying. Mega gengar feels almost mandatory on any bulkier team or somewhat defensively orientated, it forces an offensive meta and I honestly feel like we will be playing with ducks in a few months time. Marshadow on offense is only valid after chip, so it boils down to: scarf xern / yveltal (scarf / sucker Life Orb) to actually conventionally deal with it, Darkceus isn't really a check because of Outrage being a good set right now, however I would consider it a decent option for methods of 'reactive counterplay' to Ultra Necrozma. furthermore Ultra + Sticky Webs is arguably a dominant playstyle, it removes 2 of the 4 conventional aforementioned ways of dealing with Ultra (scarf xern, Mega Gengar) and complelely giving you the edge vs any offense team that is not webs. Theres a reason that style has so much success, but it isn't utilised as much as it should. | agree with it if not even s material | this is the most meta defining mon rn (just behind pdon ofc), this shit fully deserves S rank. It has a total of one viable answer which is a mega (gengar can't even run hex anymore because of this mon alone btw) and this implies you had to make it ultra burst (aka losing one mon in the process). | |
24 | Ditto: B- to B | yea ok | my nom. good mon, its presence opens up a lot of in-game plays and it's safety net provides u w the ability to spec ur team towards breaking while still easily covering offense and bodying webs. | im okay with this, ditto got cool stuff and is easily better than say tyranitar rofl. | I do like ditto in certain mus, since it can make opp think twice before setup, i would say B is ok for it. | abstain | abstain. this is meta relevant? haven't really seen it in tournament games etc. I suppose it does have the advantage of benefitting from an offensive meta. good anti-offense option. just hard to fit. | really good mon in this offensive meta so yea | why not, abstain | |
25 | Mega Lopunny: Unranked >> C+ or B- | i could only see this working on like a tspikes build similarly to kang (which is already bad...) i don't think id ever personally use this because it takes a mega slot and doesn't do any damage. arcs hard wall it just by existing. hjk doesn't even ohko darkceus... its a no from me | I've been memed on enough by the bunny courtesy of terra and twix to acknowledge that it can work. wouldn't say no to a low C test run | abstain | (my nom) Idk why this is unranked, it can have some niche mus, and can work well on offense, healing wish is interesting tech, which can help clean games. I think C+ could be a good spot, perhaps B-. | lol who nominated this? terra dicked me with this so i guess it could be ranked, it kinda works | Is this a joke? | b- easily,really nice element in hazard stack, a lot of settup mons lose to encore and healing wish is so good. | supporting C+ | |
26 | Mega Salamence: A to A+ | i'll wait to see if this trend sticks before we end up with another flip flop mon. | no. still great mon but looking at the current A+ and A I definitely feel it's strength is on the latter end right now | uncertain af | Lets keep it where it is. | abstain(leaning towards no) | abstain. this pokemon should not raise, Dragon Dance is very threatening right now but this trend waves in and out all the time. It should stay where it is like, forever. Its an A mon you always have to account for, but it will never be a true meta definer anymore. | disagree. Good offensive and def but the increase of sd pdon and ice atk mgar doesn't let a lot of space to settup | this is actually a top tier offensive threat (esp since no one wants to prep for the mence and geoxern). DD adamant cuccs the fuck out of every balance and offense and those meme called flying resist-less stall (see champs final) while jolly offensive defog is also very good against offense and even defensive DM-less team (you 2HKO timid ceus with DEdge). it has an amazing typing and premega intimidate means it can check a shitton of thing. | |
27 | Ho-Oh: A to B+ | its a tier above the likes of flyceus and ray so i dont see it going that far down... A- i can deal with because yes it requires complete team support (or gamble and run scarf with hardly any) | every time I see a ho-oh balance I nvm can just whip out a checklist of the same few threats, find one it loses to, and call the team bad lmao, that being said in game those teams usually end up working fine even if ho-oh either basically carries or is useless. big bird allows a lot of in battle flexibility in the right hazard mus at the cost of very binary hazard mus where hooh is basically either the star or a sacrificial turkey. ofc attempting full hazard denial is also a valid strategy but the only ones that I think are good are carried by the strength of mgar dbond trades (kinda cheating but hey it works), but those basically only function properly when built super fat. so ye hooh is build warping if you want consistency, and very hit or miss if you don't warp your build around it. but when hooh works its just so damn good and opens up so many sequences impossible with anything else that it's hard for me to knock it down. stay A (also flamethrower>SF if fat bird) | (my nom) short ver: ho oh is barely worth the effort to keep rocks away, the current meta naturally dgaf about it even if rocks aren’t up. long ver: lets assume theres no SR up and ignore the teambuildong reqs to male that happen. there are three strong switchins to ho-oh in the A range (zyg,mence,waterceus) one of which hard walls the bird (zyg) and another which scares the bird from clicking sacred/tox (mence). most of the rest of A rank aren’t going to care if ho oh is on the opposite bench when they want to sweep/wallbreak. the s/a rank mons that are punished by ho-oh are: cm groundy, no rock pdon, (notably rp) dusk, mage, scizor, ferro, arc dark and sorta marsh sometimes. worth noting that dusk can actually be an ultra and that, even if it isn’t, a geoxern has the same effect as a ho-oh. (dusk and ur mon will sit on bench until one of the two can sweep) right off the bat u see competetion with pogre in these roles except when it comes to covering mage, ferro, and sorta sciz. except pogre doesnt require heavy team support nor is it going to run into ded mus like zygarde. mag and sciz are also mons that are auto covered by ur complementary pdon and are overall not major threats to be dedidating a slot to. this basically leaves cm groundy, rp pdon, and ferro as the main reasons to put ho oh on ur team. i dont think these payoffs are what justifies putting ho-oh in the A rank (ur bnb mons) esp when u consider just how much teamsupport putting a ho-oh on ur team implies. (it warps ur full build around it lol) | A- pretty much agree to Nayrz. Throwing it to B+ would be wrong. | A- | Okay I had to think a lot about this one.. do we really agree Ho-Oh is truly not meta representative anymore? B+ is a huge jump, however MM2 has brought up some good points. Ho-Oh by itself is a threatening pokemon, but it completely warps your team which is an issue, Ho-Oh has too many demands in the teambuilder to have an overall solid team. I don't think Ho-Oh teams as a whole are meta representative, on the boarderline as to speak. I'd be content with A- however I can see the understanding of B+ as Ho-Oh teams, especially scarf ho-oh are a mu dependent pick/fish in the meta and struggle vs current meta dominant styles. Ho-Oh + Ekiller is worth exploring, it has strong potential I feel. | agree 100%. | since Skarmory is superior in stall-build, the only viable set are the offensive one (Band, curse and scarf smh), i'd support this dropping to A- but I wouldn't go lower tbh. It still offers some utility heh. | |
28 | Giratina-O: A- to B | its a B+ mon imo, pretty specialist in defensive niches and only mildly annoying offensively. it also has no room for speed investment so its like one of the slowest mons around rn and has 4mms on top of that | down to B+ it goes, others reasonings solid. its kinda niche rn and while good offensively it struggles defensively, and it's defenses are the main reason you'd use it anyway | (my nom) what do mgar, lunala, marsh, and even msab have in common? they are ghost types that check ekiller and ultra. tino is a ghost type that doesn’t. tino isn’t used to check much of anything besides pdon, where defogging on it is the only unique and fundamentally strong trait it boasts. marsh, mgar, and lunala are all individually powerful pokemon that each demand conscious and different means of keeping them in line due to their large offensive potential. tino can status some things and click hex. or just have a dd zyg / sub ekiller setup on it. btw theres mega salamence if u need a mon that can check pdon and defog. (while also being a great pokemon!) | abstain | abstain | abstain | Gira-o is ok where it is,wall pdon let defog vs webs and can do decently vs dusk mane | abstain | |
29 | Mega Lucario: B- >> B | nah mm2's points are spot on. if you want a sweeper that can take over games with support just run ultra - ultra itself makes lucario shaky cuz even fat teams with a steel it can target might have ultra around. even in the dusk shell its about as useful vs xern and better yet, it doesn't take the mega slot | disagree. ultra hurts it, fast arcs, ghosts, mega slot. personally I'd rather it drop than rise | probably not worth raising. teams still naturally check it with their ghost-type and ultra being the hyped mon atm doesn’t help either. u also have to worry about mence and anybody still using fast arceus. u can rk xern but only if its weakened and u can’t switch in. also mluc eats ur mega slot. | Agreed with Terra. | no | This pokemon is naturally checked, and you keep asking yourself why aren't you using Ultra Necrozma most the time. Keep it where it is | my internal nomination. people started using again bulky arc forms that get outspeeded by him, zyg is primaly more offensive and it can revenge xerneas,really undervalued. | agreeing with terracotta |