350 Cup

I am also for a suspect and ban of it. I dont use it myself and i win against most smeargle teams thx to lead staravia and bad plays of opponents, however of all the pokes i fear it the most. Imo spore + a base speed of 140 is just nuts, + other spore users dont have that setup abilities smeargle has. theoretically, you came in after some of your pokes die against a slower pokemon (isnt hard to find with 140 bas), set it to sleep and then have a free geomancy boost. i dint see this tactic, because most smeagles run stealth rocks and sticky web(first meta where sticky web seems to be viable imo) so far but i feel its possibilities once more experienced players try stuff with it out is too much to handle.


I will probably try tomorrow a geo pass + natu tactic and see how it works.

Example of Geo Pass literally outclassing Web+Rocks Smeargle.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/350cup-182265377

You can basically copy denisss troll pass too, like I have done. And smeargle is the main culprit there, obviously.

taunt sableye practically counters all smeargle tho. the only one it wouldnt is lum smeargle(which is weak to faster se mons)

Throbulator36 said:

taunt sableye practically counters all smeargle tho. the only one it wouldnt is lum smeargle(which is weak to faster se mons)

Click to expand...

Cottonee and Purrloin > Sableye

Scared of Smeargle? Then run the lord - aka Natu, sporting 80/100/90/140/90/140 stats

Natu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Heat Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost / U-Turn

gg Smeargle you pleb. Obviously its not just good vs Smeargle - its good speed and special attack, along with its awesome ability make it a really good mon imho. it also switches into Ferroseed for days, but it fears Gyro so not completely. Magic Bounce is cute because you can't be T-Waved or phazed out or anything. Pretty solid mon imho.

The Reptile said:

Scared of Smeargle? Then run the lord - aka Natu, sporting 80/100/90/140/90/140 stats

Natu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Heat Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost / U-Turn

gg Smeargle you pleb. Obviously its not just good vs Smeargle - its good speed and special attack, along with its awesome ability make it a really good mon imho. it also switches into Ferroseed for days, but it fears Gyro so not completely. Magic Bounce is cute because you can't be T-Waved or phazed out or anything. Pretty solid mon imho.

Click to expand...

Doesn't OHKO a Geomancy Pass Smeargle unless its a psychic crit.

Other than that, its a solid mon on the team. Scares any status threats away and counters setup smeargles everywhere.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Mean Look
- Transform
- Imprison

I am not pro-Smeargle ban, but I think certain combinations on him should be banned... and I think Imprison + Transform should be the first one. This set traps any poke and locks it, forcing it to struggle itself to death. This works best on a support poke, especially as you can do hazards/recovery as it faints itself. The really big thing is that it can be done 2 or 3 times in one game... While you have other ways to deal with Geoguard Pass (Roar/Clear Smog) and Hazard setup (Defog/Spin), you have no escape or way to revive a fainted poke once this set traps you and takes advantage.
I do agree with running Natu, but bear in mind it is not the ONLY way to deal with smeargle. Cottonee can switch in safely on a spore AND taunt, while sporting some pretty impressive defensive stats, leech seed, STAB Dazzling Gleam, etc.

still countered by prankster taunt and cant do shit against zorua/ditto(yay viable-ish)/subs.
also checked by things like mega-cross with arm thrust(not much but meh)/megakanga/and ghost types.
if you're wondering why I typed this it's because he said there's no way to deal with it(of course checks and counters don't prove something isn't broken)

Throbulator36 said:

still countered by prankster taunt and cant do shit against zorua/ditto(yay viable-ish)/subs.
also checked by things like mega-cross with arm thrust(not much but meh)/megakanga/and ghost types.
if you're wondering why I typed this it's because he said there's no way to deal with it(of course checks and counters don't prove something isn't broken)

Click to expand...

Ok, my bad. I should have clarified that ghost types are not trapped by the Imprisonform set. However, I still find it to be stupidly good, locking any pokes other than Gastly or Giratina (only other Ghost type I see is Litwick, which I would not recommend using unless you're trying for trick room) and leaving them unable to do anything until they struggle to their 'death'.

Something I haven't seen brought up too much, although I've only really skimmed the thread: our mascot, Smogon. AKA Koffing.

Koffing's New Stats: 80/130/180/120/90/70. You might say that Koffing is entirely outclassed by Bonsly, having worse HP, the same defenses, and lower Attack. However, there's a few things about Koffing that set it apart.

1: Typing. The Poison typing is generally a better typing defensively than Rock, not being weak to common Water types, and Koffing's Ability Levitate helps it avoid pesky Ground-type moves.
2: Attacking Stats. While Bonsly may have a better Attack stat, Koffing has a decent Special Attack and can afford to go mixed.
3: Speed. Bonsly's speed is pathetic. Pathetic. And while Koffing's speed isn't exactly something to write home about, it can certainly outspeed slower threats much more easily.
4: Movepool. Bonsly may receive useful moves such as Stealth Rock, but Koffing receives Toxic Spikes through chain breeding if that's what your team needs, and Bonsly is stuck with the low-power Rock Slide for STAB while Koffing has such assets as Sludge Bomb and Belch.

Koffing is in no way BETTER than Bonsly, as Sturdy is arguably more useful than Levitate and Bonsly can dish out physical damage much more easily, but Koffing can be quite a potent threat if you have room for him on your team.

Are people actually convinced Smeargle is not broken? That has to be one of the most ridiculous notions I have ever heard of. As Kl4ng said, being forced to compromise defensive structure for the sake of "countering" Smeargle is not balanced at all, and really deserves attention. Smeargle is quite similar to Deoxys-D, as the hazard-laying set requires Pursuit support. Pursuit support removes all of Smeargle's counters, but the worst part is that Smeargle can easily run a Baton Pass set with reasonable effectiveness. If you switch-in Natu against a Baton Pass Smeargle, you're officially swept, and even if it's the standard hazard-laying set, Natu can't take a Pursuit from Stunky. Smeargle is also way too fast, unpredictable, and bulky for its role! Smeargle should be banned for the exact same reasons why the aliens were banned. And don't tell me "Smeargle doesn't deserve getting banned because we're talking about 350 cup." This is not Ubers, this is 350 cup, so there's no set precedent for this metagame. I also understand that many of you claim Smeargle isn't a problem from what you've seen. This claim is often used during suspect testing, and is extremely unprofessional, as it shouldn't be taken seriously (courtesy of the low quality of the ladder.) For the most part, you won't actually see people in the ladder using Smeargle remotely correct.

Smeargle can literally bypass any counter with the right build, and it has a wide variety of viable builds to do this with. I'm, again, boggling at +2 Espeed Killer Arceus being unable to OHKO it reliably -because that's one of the only ways you can be sure you'll go before its Spore/Dark Void and do severe damage to it- and even Taunters aren't a real answer to it because they can't actually KO it and can probably be pushed aside by its offensive team-mates -the ones it wants anyway to either compliment its hazard setting or pass its boosts off to- and I just... what can stall even do to deal with it? I lean towards Hyper Offense (Well, what I really lean toward is fun gimmicks, but they're usually HO-like) and Smeargle strikes me as stupid crap.

Seriously, there isn't a counter, and there isn't going to be one. At best there might be checks to slow it up -Magic Bounce Taunter that's faster than it- but it can just do too many viable things.

Looking back on my posts I might have sounded a bit unexperienced but after further pondering with no effect from the ladder, that Kl4ng's set is particularly not "broken", yet the Geomancy pass and Smash pass "are", in a way this is a very similar situation to the reasons that Lucarionite and Aegislash were banned, Smeargle can be unpredictable, and with your predictions are wrong, well you see yourself in a sticky situation or worse, if you predict it to be the hazard setter you might get a pass set, if you predict Pass and you get hazzards while you are in a better situation, the lack of a way to get rid of them can be bad and if you have defog you can be put against a defiant/ competitive mon, either way I am fine with it here or gone.

Cough...mega-mewto-Y...cough

Smeargle is faster than Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y, and wouldn't be a counter if it was faster. At most it would block Smeargle from entering the field while Mewtwo is up.

Heck, Smeargle can remove more than 2/3rds of its health with Foul Play, which of course it can learn, and potentially have cause to use it more generally.

Smeargle is indeed faster but you can freely switch in on spore/dark void with insomnia and kill em with focus blast or taunt him

No, you switch in on Spore/Dark Void, and it switches out onto something that can take out or scare out Mega Mewtwo Y -so basically anything with Sucker Punch- with bonus points for the potential to Foul Play you on the way in and then Foul Play you again, netting a free KO for your troubles. Or it Parting Shots, or it was setting up Geomancy while you switched in and Baton Passes it off to some unholy terror that murders Mega Mewtwo Y, or...

You have a point. But w/e it helps me out i'm not saying you have to use it 2.

Ps: most suckerpunch users don't like to switch in on a focus blast

I'm posting this here for anyone who wants a reliable way to defeat smeargle

Mankey @ filler
Vital Spirit
Close Combat
Vacuum Wave
coverage
coverage

Basically this set neuters most smeargle sets. They use spore/dark void and take the CC then die to vacuum wave(unfortunately its only priority). the only smeargle that can deal with this in 1 turn is phazing smeargle(which it won't run since it runs support not stall)

Throbulator36 said:

I'm posting this here for anyone who wants a reliable way to defeat smeargle

Mankey @ filler
Vital Spirit
Close Combat
Vacuum Wave
coverage
coverage

Basically this set neuters most smeargle sets. They use spore/dark void and take the CC then die to vacuum wave(unfortunately its only priority). the only smeargle that can deal with this in 1 turn is phazing smeargle(which it won't run since it runs support not stall)

Click to expand...

Nice idea, but this is similar to my mewto-Y which 1hitsko smeargle ( did not do calcs but he always did in battle) instead of using vacuum afterwards

NyneTiNyne said:

Nice idea, but this is similar to my mewto-Y which 1hitsko smeargle ( did not do calcs but he always did in battle) instead of using vacuum afterwards

Click to expand...

focus sash.
Mankey also OHKO's. the only thing is mankey can actually outspeed the second turn(unlike mewtwo).

Belly Drum smeargle is a fantastic lure to nearly all of its counters although it still requires pursuit support unless you run knock off (you're smacked by gastly anyway so I prefer sacred fire) no natu, arceus, or pretty much all non ghost/rock types really like switching into smeargle. Trust me on calcs cause they are really hard to do 9.9. Anyways down to the meat of the post I wanted to bring up two mons that I find are really good. First, semi outclassed by smeargle is delibird, the santa bird is tired of getting laughed at and now is a really viable mon. I have been using it as an anti lead with fake out being able to break sashs and destiny bond to get a free kill, the things it has over smeargle are a sleep immunity and actual offensive prescence(non bd that is) but in a lot of ways it is outclassed however it will shine after a potential smeargle ban. Ok now onto the other mon which is another commonly shat upon mon: shedinja. Shedinja is a great pivot for any team being able to force a multitude of switches via wonder guard. Yeah it forces you to run hazard removal and most likely a cleric but with the amount of momentum you get from shedinja it is still really good. You can also run will o wisp to cripple physical attackers that want to come in. It can also kill off weakened things with shadow sneak off its base 180 attack which is really impressive although most of the time you will be clicking baton pass. All in all I feel that shedinja and delibird (although kinda outclassed for the time being) and shedinja are two very underrated pokemon in the 350 cup metagame and highly recommend you at least try them out!