Data State of the Game - January 2017

State of the Game - January 2017

Hello there, due to the introduction of Generation VII and some of the new mechanics, we are opening up a new SotG thread. Newer members will probably not have encountered these; before the feedback thread was created, SotG's were the easiest way to raise and discuss any concerns in ASB. This thread will act in a similar manner to all other SotG's.

As per usual we will be using this thread to make major announcements, as well as send out some general questions and topics of dicussion to the community.

Announcements

Concerning Recent Community Behaviour

Starting out a SotG on a sour note isn't what we would like to do, but it should be noted that the general behaviour of the community of late has been disappointing. Every day on #capasb alone there seems to be some sort of heated argument and these arguments have been becoming more and more commonplace to the point where the chat is becoming unenjoyable for some of us, which is really bad for the community. We would like to remind you that this is a game after all. It's a fun forum game we play to pass the time with other players whether it be playing or chatting away and that you are talking to human beings who can have feelings. We as a community should be welcoming to anyone who wishes to play and we should also remember to be kind to one another, because a kind environment is much much better to be in than a toxic environment.

TLR Updates

Drifting Nomadic Augur and The Planet's Fury are being closed for renovations. We apologise that this hasn't happened already (It's mostly on Its_A_Random not caring enough to say yes or no to it, ditto Four Swords Quest).

Drifting Nomadic Augur can be best described as a failed experiment; it was designed around dynamic difficulty and risk/reward but it turned out this implementation was shoddy and as a result, the TLR has been seen as a failure. Don't get us wrong, a TLR that is easy to win is not a bad thing, but Drifting Nomadic Augur is being considered as a little bit too far on the easy scale and as such, is getting renovated to make it less easy although still beatable.

The Planet's Fury is considered a bit of a scrappy TLR by several in the community, a TLR built for a Gen V era with some bad scenarios and some considering it to be a bit too easy for an Uber TLR, as well as the length of it which is considered to be very long. As with Drifting Nomadic Augur, an easy TLR is not necessarily a bad thing, but again, we want it to be a bit more challenging, as well as removing the elements that made the TLR considered to be scrappy in the first place.

Questions for the Community

NOTE: You don't have to answer all the the questions, just the ones you wish to respond to.

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?
Is it a little bit too good? Is it a little bit too underwhelming? What are your experiences with Z-Moves? Are there any interesting strategies you have found with regards to using them?

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?
Salazzle qualifies for a signature item the same way Vespiquen does and due to time constraints and Its_A_Random not having any good ideas, It was given Rare Candy and put on the backburner. Should Salazzle get one? If so, what would you envision such an item to have with regards to buffing Salazzle?

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?
For reference, the major abilities that were buffed or nerfed include Parental Bond (1.25× BAP, 1.25× EN), Gale Wings (Has Multiscale-like restriction on when ability works), Prankster (Dark-types block it), and Weak Armour (Now raises Speed two (2) stages). Do you feel that some could do with some change (Dogfish44 in particular asks is there any reason for the EN Cost increase to Parental Bond to stay) and why?

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?
Do we lock them away in TLR like Legends and if so, how should we go about handling them? Should we let other RP's give away an Ultra Beast or two (e.g. ASS, Birkal's Island Challenge)? In a similar vein, Dogfish44 also asks how should we handle TLR's for Cosmog, Necrozma, Magearna, and Marshadow, if we decide to handle them in TLR's?

5) How do you feel about Legendary Pokémon being brought to Gyms, whether it be by the Leader, or by the Challenger and why?
Basically, do you feel like it's working at the moment? Do you feel like there should be some restrictions on Legendary Pokémon brought to Gyms (and what kind of restrictions) or should we let them run wild? Why either way?

6) For users who are new to the game: How are you finding ASB?
How did you feel about the registration process? How do you feel about the battle system? Share your experience with the game so far.

Finally, as a minor side question that ZhengTann (and Texas) wishes to ask for codification purposes:

7) Are there any 1.5× boosts ingame that are currently not treated as +3 boosts in ASB? In a similar vein, are there any WC-based moves that need to be looked at due to BAP discrepancies relative to in-game like Storm Throw was?
Pretty simple, as per the recent desire to codify 1.5× boosts as +3 boosts that have been going on in policy of late, have there been any that we have missed? Same thing for Weight Class-based moves with regards to ASB BAP vs. In-game BAP.

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We welcome all other comments on the current State of the Game at this time. General rules apply.

1. The only users I've seen use z crystals are Snarguffle, who actually got a decent effect with it /once/ but likely could have replicated it with a different item(and only got the worthwhile effect due to the matchup ending with an orko, other items would have definitely been better options otherwise) and myself, which I haven't actually got the z move yet
Seems underwhelming on paper and no practice to speak of

2. Yes, just because we chose to give one to Vespiquen, don't really care what though

3. Other than PBond(agree with corgi) they all got affected, we matched it, this is fine

4. I am fine with either locked or unlocked UBs but would rather, if locked, they don't go in TLRs

7. Sky Drop is the only move with a relevant difference from ingame bap based on wc

1) I have not personally used Z-Moves, but I do consider them to be underwhelming. ASB isn't very burst oriented to be honest, and the idea of Z-Moves is to provide a boost to nuking potential, but it costs that ever so valuable item slot. They have incredibly niche uses, but they aren't an item that I would have at the forefront of my planning process.

2) Yes, only because we gave Vespiquen one for the exact same reason. Salazzle would benefit heavily a psuedo-Focus Band effect or a Filter effect in order to help it cope with its crippling 4x weakness to Ground, +1 Rank to SpA, and probably some love for its STABs.

3) Parental Bond's nerf was a much needed nerf, considering how generally strong Mega Kangaskhan was. Now it's only a +2 BAP effect on average (see: 8 BAP attacks since Punches). So, I would be perfectly fine with removing the EN cost bump as per the thoughts of the corgi.

4) Ultra Beasts are weird. I personally do not think they are strong enough to warrant having TLRs, but I do think they need to have some sort of requirement before being able to access them. I like the idea of an RP adopting the responsibility of releasing Ultra Beasts. As far as the remaining 4 mons named go, they should have TLRs just to maintain "standard" regarding Legendary Pokemon and their treatment in ASB. However, none of them should be that difficult, since none of them are that impressive as a mon. (see: let's not make more TLRs like SSoR)

5) I think Legendary Pokemon in Gyms need to be regulated similarly to how they are for tournament prizes. The reason behind this is that some legends are absurdly good while others are not. Example: Mega Mewtwo X is an amazing mon, but something like Genesect isn't. I feel like if the Tourney Committee/Mods have determined that a Legendary Pokemon should be limited to very certain tournaments, then the same restriction probably needs to be extended to gyms in order to avoid making the gym excessively difficult. Either that, or the gym committee needs to make sure the arena is properly adjusted to accommodate for the new, powerful addition to the team.

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7) Sniper is still being treated as a +2 in ASB, although its boost is a ×1.5 effect in-game. And also phoenix mentioned the Weight Class move I wanted to address, which for record, averages 3 BAP above what it would be if translated directly from in-game without the BAP change.

UBs into ASS or the island challenge would be cool. Would give someone like me a reason to look at a sim I haven't cared about yet

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?
Although I haven't had much use with them, Z-Moves as damaging attacks seem to be quite weak to me. An increase of at most 10 BAP once generally seems underwhelming, especially when this is equalled by 3 (4 if SE) hits with the respective type item. There are situations where it seems to have uses as a finishing move to KO a Pokemon quickly, as combinations have often done in the past and present. A final damage increase of 1 or 2 could be considered, but I don't think it's been tested enough as of yet.
Their cost, however, seems too expensive for their worth at this stage, especially for only one type. A cost of 8CC, on par with type-boosting items seems more appropriate. This is also probably why they've had little use.

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?
Yep, Salazzle should have a signature item. Probably increase Atk / SpA as a counterpart to Vespiquen. Possibly something to reduce the damage of Ground-type moves. Perhaps boost its Venoshock?

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?
Parental Bond: A good nerf, seeing how strong Mega Kangaskhan was previously. Can't say I've seen enough of it to make a decision on the EN issue yet.
Gale Wings: Consistency with in-game says keep the nerf, but reboosting it wouldn't break Talonflame (which wasn't strong before).
Prankster: This seems very situational, especially since the only particularly common Prankster user is Dark-type itself. Seems fine.
Weak Armour: Should probably make sure it doesn't break Aurumoth, but otherwise it seems fine.

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?
If the Island Challenge is difficult enough to not make Ultra Beasts a breeze to get (they are on par at least with Pokemon with TLR's such as Manaphy), that sounds like a fun idea to keep them somewhat limited and to incentivise focus on these roleplays.
The other four Pokemon mentioned should have TLR's in my opinion, with them being essentially the same roles in-game as other Pokemon with TLR's (or that are currently unobtainable).

5) How do you feel about Legendary Pokémon being brought to Gyms, whether it be by the Leader, or by the Challenger and why?
Basically, do you feel like it's working at the moment? Do you feel like there should be some restrictions on Legendary Pokémon brought to Gyms (and what kind of restrictions) or should we let them run wild? Why either way?
Legendary Pokemon have very different power levels, such as between Mewtwo and Keldeo. With type advantages in particular, the stronger Pokemon seem overpowered, for example with Mewtwo and Deoxys basically annihilating Poison-types (as far as I can see). The stronger Legendary Pokemon could be limited by consuming the team's Mega Pokemon slot, or an outright banlist as a last resort. The weaker ones should most likely go unrestricted, as they are often outclassed or compete for roles with common non-Legendary Pokemon.

7) Are there any 1.5× boosts ingame that are currently not treated as +3 boosts in ASB? In a similar vein, are there any WC-based moves that need to be looked at due to BAP discrepancies relative to in-game like Storm Throw was?
idk about wc-based moves with bap discrepancies but there are some pokemon with incorrect wc's in the nda
yes i keep pointing this out idk it annoys me fsr
Marvel Scale's buff in-game is 1.5x Def, but reduces BAP of physical attacks by 2.
Plus and Minus boost SpA by 1.5x in-game but 2 BAP in ASB.

Regarding 4, since I was on the RP Committee when the "legends on all rps" talk happened:

When Deck Knight created the "specifically allowed" and "disallowed" legends list, it opened the possibility of RPs other than TLR to have them as prizes. The RP Committee though voted on that and decided not to allow that and keep legendaries as TLR and Tournament exclusives.

If Ultra Beasts are to have limited distribution (regardless of a "legendary" status, since it is kinda blurry), then it would be better to have them follow the same procedure: analysis and decision via RP Committee, since they are the ones in charge of approving RP Prizes. And if that proposal passes, I feel it would be better to allow those prizes on all RPs (whose owners are interested in it) and not only ASS and Birkal's Island thinge. Since they aren't special like TLR and should be treated the same way as every other RP.

2 cents

1.) The Z-Crystals need more time (And to be substantially cheaper), but I suspect they're a smidgen underwhelming. They might be valuable as revenge killing items, but at the moment I can understand why people aren't going for them.

2.) Yes, it almost certainly needs to be different from Vespi's, beyond that no clue.

3.) My opinions on Parental Bond are in the question, the rest are fine at the moment, in my opinion.

4.) I would only like to move Ultra Beasts to easy legendary (Pre-Renovation Deoxys), or difficult training (Floette-E) level TLRs. I have no real issue with them being widely distributed, as long as they're not simply purchasable. Island Challenge would be my favourite place to put them, at a glance.

Cosmog, Necrozma, Magearna, and Marshadow should all make adequate TLRs from what I can see.

5.) This one, personally, is working. I know it's an arbitrary system, but we've never particularly claimed to be a democracy. Committees should probably declare the updated lists at some stage in the future, however.

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?
Too early to call, DF said everything I had in mind.

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?
Salazzle should have a Sig Item. Give it +2 BAP Stabs/SE moves Imo.

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?
Parental Bond - Lose the EN, BAP is decently nerfed as is.
Gale Wings - Please guys this is ridiculous, give Talonflame Multiscale ability effect (for HP) as well imo. *curses Game Freak*
Prankster - I don't like it, makes Fidgit and especially Tomohawk useless against Dark mons :(
Weak Armour - Auru needs to be checked as said already.

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?
Agree with DF, Training TLR, ASS and Island Challenge would make a good distribution.

5) How do you feel about Legendary Pokémon being brought to Gyms, whether it be by the Leader, or by the Challenger and why?
Some leniency is needed to see how it goes.

I'm only going to give an opinion on what I can for as none of those other topics have really affected me yet

6.) For users who are new to the game: How are you finding ASB?
I am glad I found out about ASB and even got my friend to play as well; its a really fun game. I come from a more competitive background when it comes to Pokemon so a game like this is rather refreshing in a lot of ways I never thought was possible. As for mechanics, I like how the battle system is structured (even though I am not that good yet.) and like my previous point, its a very refreshing system. I will say its a little disappointing not seeing a few of my favorites as super viable mons but I am astonished by some of the things that are straight up trash in normal play that become fairly decent in ASB and vice versa. Extremely interesting if I do say so. I really hope to accomplish more in the future as I already have a couple goals laid before me and I hope to get to know more of the community a little better.
Even though I know I am not the best when it comes to actually using IRC. Curse you Smogon.
Just a bit of my experience so far.

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?
I haven't used it so far (part because it seems very underwhelming), but what I think has been outlined previously: it seems quite underpowered when compared to other items, especially in a game that's not very burst-oriented.

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?
I think the Parental Bond nerf was legit Damage-wise, as MKanga was really strong, but I can't say as far as EN goes.
As for Gale Wings, I think the nerf might hit Talonflame a bit too much, especially as it's not very good and having a 4x weakness. I don't know if it's a good idea to nerf it into oblivion for consistency' sake.
I don't see too much of a problem for Weak Armor. The mons that have it often have trouble making good use of it, and it has a drawback. Aaaaaaaaand then there's Aurumoth.

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?
Given that UBs are technically not legendaries, I'd see them in some RP (Island challenge seems logical) but not TLRs, though I wouldn't mind having them in TLRs either.

6) For users who are new to the game: How are you finding ASB?
So far (it's been what, 4-5 months?), it's been very fun! It's a whole new twist to a game I knew pretty much inside out, and the heavily strategic aspect is simple enough to grasp to have fun, but complicated enough so that I feel I'm always learning.
The community is very friendly too and I enjoy hanging out on IRC (haven't witnessed a lot of arguments lately so can't speak for that). I think that's also one of the strongest parts of ASB: people are always willing to lend a hand. So thanks for all!

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?
I've never haven't them so far or thought about using them and probably for good reason. On the good side, a Z-Move is like a same move combo (usually) with no cooldown. That's awesome. But the biggest problem with it is the fat that it eats up your item slot. Now, maybe they might be useful in Raids, since you also get Glyphs and stuff, but regularly they seem very meh. As for status Z-moves, well, except for Z-Parting Shot, Mememto, and Extreme Evoboost, most of them are just small sat increases on op of a move, which is not very good since decay is a thing here.

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?
Since Vespiquen has one, it only seems fair to give Salazzle one, too. Here are a couple ideas I have off the top of my head:

• Raises highest true Base Stat by 1 rank (of course)
• +1 BAP to Poison moves
• This one may be kinda broken, but considering the whole reverse harem thing in her PokeDex entry, maybe have it use Captivate (-1 SpA to opposite genders) on switch in a la Intimidate.
• Something small for her Ground weakness

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?
I think that a TLR similar to how the games had the Ultra Beast missions Not fully sure on how this could work, but if done right, it could be really cool. Maybe for each one, you travel to certain spot and in search of the UB, you face beaten up Pokemon from that area or battle Pokemon owned by nearby panicky pedestrians or something like that.
I do also like the sound of that Island Challenge idea, too.

6) For users who are new to the game: How are you finding ASB?
It's been great! It puts a whole new twist on the game I've known and loved for so long and really makes me think. I also really like the Roleplay aspects of it (I can't wait for when I'm eventually able to do raids and such), since I do enjoy writing, even though I not the best at it :P. The community is also great, full of friendly people and it was very welcoming when I first came. Some of the things I've gotten to try have been really fun, too. For example, I never thought that I would ever be a ref, and now I'm striving for the ability to ref Battle Halls! Overall, great experience so far!

1.) Although I have yet to use one, I feel like the vast majority (aside from, perhaps, Z-Parting Shot) of Z-Moves, both status and attacks, are nowhere near as useful as they are ingame, especially once you factor in the one use attribute and the existence of combinations. I would suggest buffing almost all of the non-attacking moves to compensate, making Z-Moves usable twice per match (even though this goes against ingame, which I'm hesitant to do), and/or allowing Z-Moves to be used in combinations (different move combos only, perhaps. this would most likely be the only way to make them as powerful on offense as they are ingame).

2.) Yes, for the sake of consistency, as well as because Salazzle has unique potential that could be expanded upon nicely. If it was left up to me, the item would look something like this.

Salazzle's Item said:

Increases the rank corresponding to the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g 130 Atk, 85 SDef, etc) by one (1). A Pokemon holding this item may activate its Type-based commands on sendout, at a reduced cost of 3 en per command.

Click to expand...

Or this:

Salazzle's Item said:

Increases the rank corresponding to the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g 130 Atk, 85 SDef, etc) by one (1). Whenever this Pokemon attacks a poisoned target, it will always score a critical hit.

Click to expand...

The former makes use of a severely forgotten option, which just so happens to give Salazzle a noticeable improvement in consistent DPR by allowing it to run a +SpA nature without fearing Fire Blast or Will-O-Wisp to miss as often, while giving it a massive 90% chance to poison with Sludge Bomb, which sets it up for easier and (again) much more consistent Venoshocking.

The latter is a somewhat natural extension of Salazzle's "poison everything" theme, but this boon simply amplifies Salazzle's damage output further while allowing it to skirt screens and the rare defensive boost.

3.) The nerf to Gale Wings is too much; Talonflame wasn't very viable to begin with, and this has completely clipped its wings (reference intended). Prankster is a mixed bag; on one hand, making it a toggle ability would probably be appreciated by its users, but on the other it seems like a re-balancing of mons like Sableye, who now have a larger list of Pokemon that can threaten them to some degree of effectiveness (in Sableye's case, Pangoro, off the top of my head).

4.) I feel like the ultra beasts need to be released via a TLR emulatior. Birkal's RP seems like a natural starting point for discussion and/or placing.

5.) I'll speak from experience on this topic. Back when I had control of my old gym, Birkal (tagging because of his experience in this topic) fought me using his newly-obtained Mewtwo. Although 3apr doubles is a bit of a, for lack of a better word, clusterfuck, and Water is an inherently good type, I felt no more threatened when looking at his lineup than I would have if he had brought any strongmon with a type advantage over Water. However, I am aware that not all gyms have the capabilities to defend against such a wide range of powerful threats, and that some of them are especially weak to the stronger ones, so my knowledge is somewhat limited on the matter. I ultimately feel that usage of legendary Pokemon should be left to the leader's discretion, along with whether or not legendaries should cost the user their mega slot.

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?

Underwhelming thus far, but i dont feel they need buffing. Z-Moves are niche even in-game, and i am fine with their current state.

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?

Sure. Do something with it's Attack/Sp.Atk stats and do something akin to Goid's first idea. Type Commands are never used, so having a pokemon that can make use of them would be very unique.

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?

Parental Bond - Sincere, i wouldnt mind if the extra EN cost was removed, but it does feel like it is in a good spot rigth now.

Gale Wings - Huge nerf that fucked Talonflame pretty badly. I am all for consistency, but i wouldnt opose a revert to it's nerf.

Prankster - Fine with this.

Weak Armor - Pretty awesome buff, with Omastar, Kabutops and Mandibuzz making the better use out of it. Aurumoth greatly appreciates this as well, but the Defense decrease can still backfire.

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?

Simply make TLRs for them like we would for any other legendary.

5) How do you feel about Legendary Pokémon being brought to Gyms, whether it be by the Leader, or by the Challenger and why?

It all depends on the Legendary. It is one thing if Emma decides to bring Regirock against the Grass Gym. It is another entirely if Birkal decides to bring Mewtwo to Poison.
Since Megas are a thing, i believe having the more powerful Legendaries costing a Mega Slot for the respective user would be a reasonable answer.

7) Are there any 1.5× boosts ingame that are currently not treated as +3 boosts in ASB? In a similar vein, are there any WC-based moves that need to be looked at due to BAP discrepancies relative to in-game like Storm Throw was?

Marvel Scale and Plus/Minus are the only ones that come to mind right now.

Berserk is a +1 Sp.Attack buff in game (Effectively a 1.5x boost), which translates into ASB as a simple +2 that isnt affected by SE, however. I wouldnt mind if we changed it into a +3 like we do for the other abilites.


Edit: Adaptability and Sheer Force might count as well.

Matezoide said:

Berserk is a +1 Sp.Attack buff in game (Effectively a 1.5x boost), which translates into ASB as a simple +2 that isnt affected by SE, however. I wouldnt mind if we changed it into a +3 like we do for the other abilites.

Click to expand...

I'd just like to point out that Berserk can and will activate every time you drop down to <50% ingame (IIRC), so, unless we're changing stat boosts/drops to operate on a +3 system, we'd either be nerfing the ability by only letting it trigger once, adding an unaligned +3 damage to special attacks whenever the criterion is met, or making a one-time exception to the stat change system.

S0L1D G0LD said:

I'd just like to point out that Berserk can and will activate every time you drop down to <50% ingame (IIRC), so, unless we're changing stat boosts/drops to operate on a +3 system, we'd either be nerfing the ability by only letting it trigger once, adding an unaligned +3 damage to special attacks whenever the criterion is met, or making a one-time exception to the stat change system.

Click to expand...

.....Oh.

I uhh, knew that. I was just testing ASB!

6) For users who are new to the game: How are you finding ASB?
This is really the only one that I had anything to say about right now, and honestly, it's been a great experience. I've been having fun reffing matches, battling, and hanging out sparingly on the IRC, haven't really noticed any of this disagreements or whatever, so that's a good thing. One thing I'd point out towards registering, there is either so mis-matching information, and there is a lot of different info in a lot of different places. It's not confusing enough to be a barrier to entry, especially with any help on irc or anything to that effect, however. Though maybe have some sort of clean up effort, maybe make a singular "Beginners corner" Rather than have 3-4 different threads. Just my two cents, the current system works fine, but I'd rather leave a small critique instead of just saying "Yeah game is pretty fun" and not actually give any feedback.

Matezoide said:

.....Oh.

I uhh, knew that. I was just testing ASB!

Click to expand...

To be fair, I wouldn't be opposed to buffing stat boosts. They're nowhere near as good in ASB as they are ingame, so a small change to make them a more viable option could be a good thing. Although we would have to revisit Belly Drum if we pursued this course of action.

Matezoide said:

Edit: Adaptability and Sheer Force might count as well.

Click to expand...

Not to get nitpick-y, but adaptability was designed to make stab +5, IIRC, and Sheer Force is +33% ingame.

S0L1D G0LD said:

To be fair, I wouldn't be opposed to buffing stat boosts. They're nowhere near as good in ASB as they are ingame, so a small change to make them a more viable option could be a good thing. Although we would have to revisit Belly Drum if we pursued this course of action.



Not to get nitpick-y, but adaptability was designed to make stab +5, IIRC, and Sheer Force is +33% ingame.

Click to expand...

No, you are right. My appologies for not paying as much attention as i should.

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?
I feel that Z-Moves are a trap option, as the benefit is usually "one free, 0 Priority 'combo' that doesn't incur Cooldown," which I do not view as worth an item slot. Maybe Araquanid or a Z-Belly Drum user could justify using a Z-Crystal, but most Pokemon have better choices.

I would also like to propose the concept of signature Z-Crystals (Aloraichium, Snorium, etc.) granting additional effects to their wielded. Precedent is somewhat set by our work on a few Mega Stones, such as Houndoominite, Tyranitarite, and Manectricite, and Z-Moves are definitely weaker than Mega Evolutions, so I don't see an issue with tweaking these items as well.

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?
Yes. I recognize that Salazzle would benefit most from an item that made its Ground weakness more manageable, but, honestly, I would prefer to build off of its Ability concept and further incentivize strategies involving the Poison status.

This Pokemon's Special Attack is increased by one (1) Rank. The damage dealt by Poison or Bad Poison inflicted by this Pokemon is increased by 250% (2.5x).

Click to expand...

This is what I propose to accomplish such a goal. I've included a comparison between signature item effects to help convey my idea.

Damage Comparison said:

Salazzle + Rare Candy (RC1): +1.111 damage (/4), +1.667 damage (/2), +2.5 damage (neutral), +3.75 damage (2x), +5.625 damage (4x)
Single-type Pokemon + Rare Candy (RC2): +1.556 damage (/4), +2.333 damage (/2), +3.5 damage (neutral), +4.75 (2x), +7.875 damage (4x)
Salazzle + Above Item: +4.5 damage (all)

Click to expand...

When taking into account the weaknesses and resistances of Salazzle's opponents, such an item grants more of a benefit in a neutral or disadvantageous match-up, has comparable results to RC1 and RC2 when fighting an opponent with a 2x weakness to Salazzle's STAB attacks, and is outperformed when dealing with an opponent who is 4x weak to Salazzle's STAB attacks. Overall, this item has a higher damage output, but, is less consistent, as Salazzle must either successfully Poison an opponent with Sludge Bomb or Sludge Wave, or accept a drop in DPR by using Poison Gas or Toxic (I haven't included calculations involving Toxic, but the damage output is identical for three rounds, then exceeds that of regular Poison.).

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?

• Parental Bond: I think this is fine. I wouldn't mind implementing Dogfish's suggestion, though.
• Gale Wings: This is a massive nerf to a Pokemon that was already pretty bad. I respect the desire for consistency between on-cartridge and ASB, but I would not be opposed to a reversion.
• Prankster: Given that this Ability is now a pseudo-Taunt against Dark-types, I think that Prankster should become a Toggle Ability.
• Weak Armor: This is fine.

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?
Releasing the UB's through TLR's is the most logical option I can see. Birkal's Island Challenge is also a valid choice.

5) How do you feel about Legendary Pokémon being brought to Gyms, whether it be by the Leader, or by the Challenger and why?
We already restrict the usage of stronger Legendary Pokemon in Tournaments, so a similar rule for Gyms is, IMO, a good idea.

6) For users who are new to the
game: How are you finding ASB?
Yeah. I really enjoy the difference between this system and the one I lead in Facebook. The registration was easy, especially with a tutor, had a little trouble with the movesets though. All in all, the community has been great, Thanks!

I'll probably answer some stuff here and add some questions of my own on a weekly basis :P

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?
Jumping on the "YES PLEASE" bandwagon. My tweezers- no, my whole toolbox is ready for when Council opens an individual thread for this. Although with so many suggestions and so many ASBers eager to play God, if only for so brief a time, I personally has no idea yet how to go about discussing this and deciding on an option to be implemented.

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?
I would like to suggest that we remove the 1.25x EN cost on Parental Bond, or at least turn it into a +1 EN cost a la Technician or Skill Link. Our BAP:EN ratio scaling wasn't exactly linear (I think?), so the multiplier on Energy cost as an inhibition seems a little too much. Come to think of it, why didn't we do it back in Gen6?

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?
I fully agree with Frosty. Just in case my like didn't make it clear.

5) How do you feel about Legendary Pokémon being brought to Gyms, whether it be by the Leader, or by the Challenger and why?
Can we have it worked into individual gyms according to each Gym Leader, similar to Mega-Evolutions? Maybe even tailored according to individual challengers? So long as consensus is reached before teams are sent in, Legendaries may be used - otherwise, the lower number takes precedent.

6) For users who are new to the game: How are you finding ASB?
While it's nice to see posts answering this question positively, we may need to remind ourselves that survivorship bias is at work here, at least partially. The ones who left in frustration would not have bothered to post here in the first place. I'm digging Endless' idea of a "Beginner's Corner thing" - although we already have sticky'ed threads in the main forum, part of me can't help but think we might need more visibility. Maybe a flashy new subforum whose purpose is solely informative?

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?

I do not have direct experience with them yet, but it doesn't take complex calculations to see how underwhelming they are. The fact they take up your item slot is too much of a handicap, especially due to the power of other held items.

Personally, I would consider allowing more uses per match. Even gems (you still remember those, right?) can only be used once per Pokemon in-game, but up to 5 times per Pokemon in ASB. We could consider a similar tweak for Z-moves as well.

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?

Considering Vespiquen gets a sig item, it seems acceptable for Salazzle to get one as well. Given that its "gimmick" is being able to poison everything, thanks to its Corrosion ability, perhaps the sig item should emphasize this - either making Salazzle's poison more damaging, or giving Salazzle some kind of advantage when poisoning or hitting poisoned targets.

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?

Parental Bond: Last time I faced a Mega Kangaskhan I found it to be overwhelmingly strong - even with the EN penalty. I don't know how good or bad it is now in practice, though.
Gale Wings: I'm sorry for Talonflame, but I see no reason to not follow the in-game nerf. It seems too arbitrary IMO to just ignore it because poor Talonflame.
Prankster: I for one welcome this nerf. Prankster is a ridiculous ability, even moreso in ASB than in-game. Allowing more Pokemon to be reliable answers to the likes of Sableye (like all those Dark-types with Play Rough) will be good in the long run.
Weak Armor: I can see the concerns with Aurumoth, but I'd let it as it is for now. We need more empirical data before we can claim it's broken somehow.

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?

We should definitely consider handing them out via other means - and possibly, use this as an experiment to do something similar with other legends, as well. Now, you probably know that I do like Legend Runs. However, the main issue I see with it is that you can only do one run at any given time, and with the existing amount of legendaries (especially if we count UBs), it makes nearly impossible to catch even a reasonable fraction of the existing legends before we grow old and die.

The reason why we should consider releasing UBs (and maybe even other legends) through other means than TLR is mostly to allow players to pursue them as well as other TLR legends.

5) How do you feel about Legendary Pokémon being brought to Gyms, whether it be by the Leader, or by the Challenger and why?

As a rule of thumb, I believe we should ban from gyms (both for the challenger and the gym leader) any legendary with more than 600 BST not named Regigigas. It is really hard to see any of them as even remotely balanced.

As for the rest of the legendaries... it's complicated. We may do a case-by-case ban, Smogon-style, but we have nowhere the same amount of data to call accurate shots. Or we could simply ban all Pokemon not allowed to in-game Battle Tower (stuff like Darkrai, Deoxys, or Mew). However, while this ban would eliminate most obvious suspects (like Mew and Victini), it would also eliminate Pokemon that are quite clearly balanced (like Celebi or Keldeo). And at the same time, even among Tower-usable mons, some do not make me fully comfortable (like Thundurus).

No solution is fully satisfying, but it seems quite obvious to me that nobody should be allowed to bring a Dialga or Primal Groudon to a gym.

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Also, as my closing words, I'd like to full echo IAR's statements about the toxic arguments and the need for them to go. I for one joined ASB also to leave behind myself some of the "worst" aspects of Smogon community, and I sure as hell don't need to see them popping up here.

On the one hand, some of you really need to stop treating every ASB battle (be it gym, RP, tourney or w/e) as a VGC final and bitch as such. This is a competitive game, but not a "stop-having-fun" game. If you want one, I can give you a link to the OU subforum (sorry for any unfortunate implications, I'm being half-serious here). On the other hand, some people here really need to learn how to argument, and to realize that arguing generally means to pick the other person's proposal and improve it, not grind it to dust - or even worse, snark at it.

As a sidenote, gym committee is in agreement that our discretion has been sufficient to determine what legendaries can be brought by a leader and when. Mons brought by a challenger should be the focus of any discussion.

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?
Salazzle qualifies for a signature item the same way Vespiquen does and due to time constraints and Its_A_Random not having any good ideas, It was given Rare Candy and put on the backburner. Should Salazzle get one? If so, what would you envision such an item to have with regards to buffing Salazzle?

Well, there is precedent with Vespiquen. As for my idea, boost Salazzle's SpA by one (1) Rank, have Venoshock and Venom Drench work at full power all the time (Effectively having Salazzle treat the opponent as being poisoned for the purposes of Venoshock and Venom Drench's effects), and buff Corrosion so that Poison-Type Attacks ignore the Target's immunities.

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?
For reference, the major abilities that were buffed or nerfed include Parental Bond (1.25× BAP, 1.25× EN), Gale Wings (Has Multiscale-like restriction on when ability works), Prankster (Dark-types block it), and Weak Armour (Now raises Speed two (2) stages). Do you feel that some could do with some change (Dogfish44 in particular asks is there any reason for the EN Cost increase to Parental Bond to stay) and why?

Parental Bond: Good nerfing. Might have to be buffed to remove the Energy Cost increase. But this will depend on how it performs in Generation 7 ASB.
Gale Wings: Meh.
Prankster: Meh.
Weak Armour: Good buffing.

7) Are there any 1.5× boosts ingame that are currently not treated as +3 boosts in ASB? In a similar vein, are there any WC-based moves that need to be looked at due to BAP discrepancies relative to in-game like Storm Throw was?
Pretty simple, as per the recent desire to codify 1.5× boosts as +3 boosts that have been going on in policy of late, have there been any that we have missed? Same thing for Weight Class-based moves with regards to ASB BAP vs. In-game BAP.

Right now, Storm Throw has the same BAP as Circle Throw (but can cost more) while having a weaker BAP Formula than Vital Throw (while still costing more). This feels appropriate, as Circle and Storm Throw have the same BP in-cartridge while Vital Throw is about 10 BP more. There is no real way to scale this difference in ASB while keeping these moves as Weight-Based.

1) How do you feel about the Z-Moves mechanic and why?
I've never used them personally, and have never seen them used, but I have little to no interest in purchasing any z-crystals in their current state. While I could be proven wrong, I feel like they are exceptionally underwhelming, when, over the course of a battle, other items can provide or reduce a comparable amount of damage, and well-executed comboes can have the same effect.

2) Should Salazzle have a Signature Item and why? If so, what attributes of Salazzle would you feel like would be good for a Signature Item for Salazzle and why?
While I personally didn't feel Vespiquen should have gotten a signature item, I wasn't there to argue against it, so I think that since it has one, Salazzle should too. That said, I think an interesting concept to experiment around would be something along the lines of an item that modifies the effectiveness of poison moves used by Salazzle in general (as opposed to merely the poison status) against steel and poison types to 1x effectiveness. Salazzle will struggle with its typing and resistances regardless of a signature item (providing it isn't OP), so I feel like an item with that effect, and maybe a small flat boost to some other attribute (like Poison and Fire move BAP), would help mitigate some of its bad matchups, while simultaneously bolstering Salazzle's unique niche as a poison-type anti-poison wall.

3) What are your opinions on the abilities that were buffed or nerfed by the generational change and why?
No comment currently

4) How should we handle the distribution of Ultra Beasts with regards to RP's in ASB and why?
I think we should treat them like Legendaries. Restrict their availability to RP's and Tournaments, as they have traits comparable to legendaries.

5) How do you feel about Legendary Pokémon being brought to Gyms, whether it be by the Leader, or by the Challenger and why?
I believe that there should be a restriction on certain (but not all) legendaries entering gym battles. While this reduces the value of owning Pokemon such as Mewtwo and other mascot legendaries, they provide an unfair advantage against leaders they counter that does not reflect the skill of either trainer, but merely the strength of his/her Pokemon.

6) For users who are new to the game: How are you finding ASB?
While I'm far from new to ASB, I did recently rejoin, and I have observed, as IAR stated in the OP, that IIRC has become a much meaner place. It is fraught with argument, and I often find people behaving much more critically towards eachother. That said, this can be easily improved on.

7) Are there any 1.5× boosts ingame that are currently not treated as +3 boosts in ASB? In a similar vein, are there any WC-based moves that need to be looked at due to BAP discrepancies relative to in-game like Storm Throw was?
Unless I'm mistaken, Blaze, Torrent, Overgrow, and Swarm, only provide +2 BAP boosts when active, but give x1.5 boosts to their respective types in game. This should change to +3 in ASB to reflect their canon strength.